New buildings (insulation) Everyone getting Ripped-Off

[Dale Duffy]

I don't remember the last time I inspected any building that had the amount of insulation installed which was written on the data paper stapled to the wall.

This building was about 6,300 sq. ft. with an R-38 install stapled to the wall, and was also in his $2,200 "Upgrade" package from the contractor, the most insulation I could find was 0-6 inches....

Seams like nobody gives a rats $SS about anything anymore...screw everyone you can and hope nobody catches you, today's logic of a builder....

[David P. Valley]

You've got one guy making out the Certficate of compliance (in the office) and annotating the standard R-Values on that Certificate.

Then (on the road), you've got the other guy (dim-wit) installing the insulation. He could care less what the certificate states. He simply installs the insulation until he either runs out or he's saving a little bit for his buddies down the streeet and installs it there at the last customers expense.

I've seen similar incidents.

[bjones1]

Dont your code compliance officers have to verify that the insulation is as stated? or up to code?
Up here, R40 in ceilings and R20 in walls is code and has to be verified by the municipal building inspector before you can drywall or cover.
just finished insulating our new house and had to go through this.
gonna start mudding today or tomorrow.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by bjones1

Dont your code compliance officers have to verify that the insulation is as stated? or up to code?
Up here, R40 in ceilings and R20 in walls is code and has to be verified by the municipal building inspector before you can drywall or cover.
just finished insulating our new house and had to go through this.
gonna start mudding today or tomorrow.

City inspectors do not step on a ladder for any reason here....most of the ceiling insulation here is cellulose..so the rock is installed first...but I doubt a city inspector would look at insulation anyway, even if they were required to get a ladder out of the short truck.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by dduffy

I don't remember the last time I inspected any building that had the amount of insulation installed which was written on the data paper stapled to the wall.

This building was about 6,300 sq. ft. with an R-38 install stapled to the wall, and was also in his $2,200 "Upgrade" package from the contractor, the most insulation I could find was 0-6 inches....

Seams like nobody gives a rats $SS about anything anymore...screw everyone you can and hope nobody catches you, today's logic of a builder....

That first picture looks like it might've come from my pictures.......see this in about 80% of new homes I do. The $800,000 11 month old house (quite expensive for our market) I was consulting on before Xmas (2.5 stories of rot on 1 wall, improperly sized water source heat pump) also was lacking in ceiling insulation. The developers literature said "R50 attics" but nowhere could I find a depth for R50.....did find some R20 depths of 6-7" blown fiberglass though!!!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Dale, how in the hell do they get away with this sh#t. I every builder like that down there or what. Almost sounds like a different World compared to here.

4 1/4" is a far cry from the required 10". Is everyone that dumb?
Marcel

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Dale, how in the hell do they get away with this sh#t. I every builder like that down there or what. Almost sounds like a different World compared to here.

4 1/4" is a far cry from the required 10". Is everyone that dumb?
Marcel

Marcel...everyone gets ripped off if they don't have an inspection...I have very seldom found the amount of insulation the clients pay for exist.

The builders don't care, the insulation contractor can insulate one house with half the insulation required and do the house next door free with what was left from the previous house he did not install what he was supposed to.

Every subdivision is like this...and of course some custom builders are not any better, because they usually learned how to ***** people from working with a National Builder before starting their own gig......

[dharris]

[quote]

Originally Posted by dduffy

Marcel...everyone gets ripped off if they don't have an inspection...I have very seldom found the amount of insulation the clients pay for exist.

The builders don't care, the insulation contractor can insulate one house with half the insulation required and do the house next door free with what was left from the previous house he did not install what he was supposed to.

Last yr I figured it out on 200 random homes from all builders, 80% did not have the R30, 90% that upgraded to R38 had R 30 or less

It's no only the builder, I've seen many times where the installers would sell the customer, where he was adding insulation , insulation for their garage for $50.or the customer would slip them a $20 to put more in than required in attic.
After that job he only had that much left on his truck for the next new home he was doing.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Now you need to make me understand why in Gods name can the AHJ or Clerk of the Works, or Architect, or Designer, or Engineer allow this to happen to an innocent buyer or laymen?

Is there no control as to how one builds in your area and the market is free to all the crooked Racketeering there is in this building industry?

It is sad, because up here people like that would be bankrupt or in jail in less than two years.
Maybe that is the difference when it population is a factor.

I consider myself lucky to build, so I will cherish it to death and hope to be able to come back to the same Client.
I guess down there the philosophy is different. Or would we say Moral Ethics?

Marcel

[dharris]

[quote=mcyr]Now you need to make me understand why in Gods name can the AHJ or Clerk of the Works, or Architect, or Designer, or Engineer allow this to happen to an innocent buyer or laymen?


Ahh most of the time they put the right amount or more at the attic access and furnace access boards, and pile it up at the tape measures where you can see them from those areas, just low everywhere else.


Heck there's one builder here that tells the customer, were gonna add additional insulation, fix stucco and grout cracks,etc.
BUT,, if you hire an inspector, and he doesn't identify low insulation we won't add any.

Others tell their customers HIs are a waste of $s and offer their customers FREE inspections.
Either way, most of the time the builder wins because most inspectors do not go beyond the access and service boards.
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[Marcel R. Cyr]

Thanks Dan, and are you telling me that there are more people out there on the take than there are honest folks, earning an honest living?

That would be a sad picture.

Marcel

[dharris]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Thanks Dan, and are you telling me that there are more people out there on the take than there are honest folks, earning an honest living?

That would be a sad picture.

Marcel

Welcome to the big city, land of get rich scheems, and oh yeah valley of the sun.

Did a new home walk inspection last week, reputable, [ I thought] small town builder that's been around for over 20 yrs.
He called me the next day piss-d because I tore his home apart, and how he was loosing $s on it due to the slow down.
Heck the only thing wrong with it was , low insulation, roof tiles only overlapped 1" on 50 % of the home, bottom rows only nailed, mismatched breakers that didn't fit, 30 amp wire on a 60amp breaker, missing GFCI in garage ducting issues and 15 other things.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by dharris

Welcome to the big city, land of get rich scheems, and oh yeah valley of the sun.

Did a new home walk inspection last week, reputable, [ I thought] small town builder that's been around for over 20 yrs.
He called me the next day piss-d because I tore his home apart, and how he was loosing $s on it due to the slow down.
Heck the only thing wrong with it was , low insulation, roof tiles only overlapped 1" on 50 % of the home, bottom rows only nailed, mismatched breakers that didn't fit, 30 amp wire on a 60amp breaker, missing GFCI in garage ducting issues and 15 other things.

Good job Dan and if he is pissed off because of what you observed, that is to bad for him if the Client or buyer paid for it to begin with.

Marcel

[dharris]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Good job Dan and if he is pissed off because of what you observed, that is to bad for him if the Client or buyer paid for it to begin with.

Marcel

Ah we were buddies before we hung up, after I told him that I had property in the same commuinty and was considering contacting him [ due to his reputation] to build me a spec there.
I didn't tell him that a few years ago I used to be one of his sub-contractors, and don't think he figured it out.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by bjones1

Dont your code compliance officers have to verify that the insulation is as stated? or up to code?
Up here, R40 in ceilings and R20 in walls is code and has to be verified by the municipal building inspector before you can drywall or cover.
just finished insulating our new house and had to go through this.
gonna start mudding today or tomorrow.

Gee we did a four year old Home and it had sold three times .
The last people where the first to get a home Inspection .
I was able to figure why every one kept selling they must of had a high heat bill as there was Zero insulation in the home .
I guess the building inspector was on vacation at that time .
...Cookie