No Vent Propane Gas Fireplace

[Harold E. Miller]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Charley, you're comparing apples and oranges.

The O2 depletion sensor didn't exist in the 50s and 60s.

The ODS technology makes these units a practical option.

ODS System Found in: Unvented (Ventless, Vent free) gas logs, fireplaces and stoves. These systems are available in manual or remote control.



ODS stands for “Oxygen Depletion Sensor” , a term which accurately describes this valve type. The valve itself is similar in many ways to the two valve types above...with one exception. The pilot tube is a precision mechanism that creates a very stable flame as long as the room air contains the proper amount of oxygen. If the oxygen level in the room air drops even slightly, the pilot becomes unstable and lifts off of the thermocouple (see diagram) causing the gas valve and appliance to cease operation. This type of valve is very reliable, and there have been very few failures of this system - even with tens of millions in use worldwide.

BTW-No need to get all snarky while injecting your personal opinion.

Michael

It amazes me that there is so much fear of the unknown with these fireplaces. I personally have two unvented gas fireplaces (natural gas) in my own home, which I have also equipped with carbon monoxide detectors. There is never enough carbon monoxide in the home to even register a reading on any of the detectors.

The unvented gas fireplaces are extremely efficient at combustion, even more so than our gas oven and range cooktop.

And of course they do have to be operated according to the manufacturers' directions. (i.e. They are NOT a primary heat source, and NOT intended to be left running for a few hours at a time)

I suspect the misinformation about unvented gas fireplaces, start with the sales people at the fireplace shops, that want to make a higher commission on the sale. Creating a fear based purchase decision, versus the fact based decision. (....and after he scares buyers into the vented unit, he celebrates by lighting up a cigarette in the back room. )

The fear is so misplaced.

[James L. Evers]

They defineitely are not allowed in Canada. I was told by a gas tech there that they add something to the gas to reduce the freezing that occurrs on the outside of the tanks. They are also allowed to use copper piping in running their lines.
Their rules may be because there are other by products of the burninng gas that need to be expelled from the home.

[Annie Solar]

Hi there everyone,
I see this posting is an older one but I do have info on ventless propane gas fireplaces in this link:

http://fireplacescoop.com/propane-fireplace-facts/

Hope this can help someone!

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Todays Toronto Star .

http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/doityou...ply-save-lives


Maxwell: Carbon monoxide detectors simply save lives

January 28, 2011
Steve Maxwell
Special to the Star


About 10 years ago, a bright, hardworking biologist moved to the rural community where I live, bringing with him a vision to revitalize the local agricultural scene. His enthusiasm spilled across the table as we had lunch together one afternoon, and I remember thinking how every place needs at least a few energetic visionaries like this guy to kickstart those innovative industries that become tomorrow’s bread and butter.
His passion was high-value mushroom production and he’d assembled small test kits that he handed out to us locals for free, hoping first-hand experience would spark grassroots change in our little economy. The kits were a brilliant idea, but I never got to try mine before I heard the tragic news.
Bright and educated as he was, this guy made a fatal miscalculation. Two miscalculations, actually. After enjoying grilled burgers for dinner, he brought his apparently extinguished little barbecue inside his mobile home as rain clouds gathered overhead. That was his second mistake. The first was failing to install a carbon monoxide detector in his home. He went to bed and never woke up, another victim of that silent killer, carbon monoxide.
A Cold Colourless Killer
The hazards of carbon monoxide (CO) aren’t news to most of us. It’s more or less understood that the colourless, odourless gas is deadly, but what you might not realize is how the carbon monoxide hazard is rising as time goes on. As strange as it sounds, improving homebuilding standards are the reason why.
Carbon monoxide kills because it’s so chemically eager to latch onto additional oxygen, wherever it exists. When CO enters the body, it can bind up enough oxygen in the blood stream to starve vital organs without even causing enough pain or discomfort to wake a person up. Levels of CO above only 70 parts per million (ppm) cause headaches, tiredness and nausea. Levels over 150 to 200 ppm will probably kill you.
As homebuilding standards rise, the amount of energy-wasting air leakage is on the way down. Government is mandating these changes, and it’s a good thing when coupled with mechanical ventilation systems. But it’s also true that tighter homes also raise the stakes when it comes to indoor air quality.
Unlike older, leaky houses that have lots of natural ventilation, today’s best homes are tight enough to allow negative indoor pressures to develop under some circumstances. Excessive and unbalanced exhaust fan use or malfunctioning ventilation equipment can all cause pressure inside your home to become lower than it is outdoors, possibly drawing colourless, odourless CO into your house instead of sending it outside. Backdrafting like this is not a likely scenario, but the stakes are high enough that you can’t responsibly leave your life to chance, however small. That’s why I consider CO detectors a no-brainer.
We’ve had two detectors in our house for 15 years, and once, when the alarm went off after someone closed the fireplace flue too soon, they may have saved our lives. That’s one reason I’m a believer. Another is the way CO detectors are getting better.
Features of CO Detectors
The latest CO detectors have two features that improve performance over earlier models, and unless you’ve lived with a detector for a while you might not realize what to look for.
The first thing that matters is battery back-up. First generation CO detectors were powered by an AC plug outlet alone, and this meant they offered no protection during power failures — precisely just when you need it as furnace burner fans and water heater exhaust systems shut down instantly while combustion might still be happening for a short time. Today’s best CO detectors have a built-in, rechargeable battery that keeps the unit working even when the power goes off.
Another useful feature is end-of-life warning capabilities. CO detectors have a limited lifespan, and you can’t trust your life to them forever. Some of the Kidde units (pronounced “Kidda”) I’ve been testing for a while beep every 30 second after seven years of use. It’s a good feature.
The most expensive CO detectors only cost about $60, which may be the best value in home protection anywhere. Trouble is, buying and plugging in carbon monoxide detectors is one of those vitally important, but seemingly non-urgent things in life that somehow don’t always get done.
Not even for people smart enough to be biologists and would-be economic innovators.
Steve Maxwell, syndicated home improvement and woodworking columnist, has shared his DIY tips, how-to videos and product reviews since 1988. Visit him at www.SteveMaxwell.ca, Facebook or @Maxwells_Tips on Twitter.

[Michael Larson]

All "ventless" fire places are equipped with an ODS(Oxygen Depletion Sensor) that shuts off the gas supply if there is any reduction in room O2.

They have an extremely good safety record with no recorded deaths associated with them.

That said, burning a gas appliance in the home adds a significant amount of moisture to the building and are not meant for anything beyond supplemental heating and use in accordance with the manufacturers instructions.

Some jurisdictions do not allow their use period.

And all homes that burn fuel should be equipped with a CO detector.

[Bob Elliott]

C/O detectors have a limited lifetime and are recommended to be replaced every 5 years.
How many people even know that ?

Smoke detectors last longer, but combination units are very popular today.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by belliott

C/O detectors have a limited lifetime and are recommended to be replaced every 5 years.
How many people even know that ?

Smoke detectors last longer, but combination units are very popular today.

Thanks Bob I did not know that .... Roy
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/maho/yohoyohe/inaiqu/inaiqu_002.cfm
Do not connect plug-in units to an electrical outlet that is controlled by a wall switch.
No detectors will operate properly forever. Replace them at least every five years, unless the manufacturer specifies a shorter or longer life. Eventually, manufacturers may be required to print expiry dates on their CO detectors. This will ensure that you are purchasing an up-to-date product with a full sensor life.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Carbon Monoxide Concerns and Information Don't automatically assume that you need or don't need a carbon monoxide detector. Also, don't assume that you are safe from carbon monoxide poisoning just because you have a detector installed. Carbon monoxide detectors are intended to protect healthy adults, so take the ages and health of family members into account when assessing the effectiveness of a detector. Also, be aware that the average life span of many carbon monoxide detectors is about 2 years. The 'test' feature on many detectors checks the functioning of the alarm and not the status of the detector. There are detectors that last longer, indicate when they need to be replaced, and have power supply backups -- you need to check to see whether a particular model has the features you require. When deciding whether or not to purchase a carbon monoxide detector, you need to consider not only the number and type of carbon monoxide sources, but also the construction of the building. Newer building may have more airtight construction and may be better insulated, which make it easier for carbon monoxide to accumulate

Additional Carbon Monoxide Concerns and Information Don't automatically assume that you need or don't need a carbon monoxide detector. Also, don't assume that you are safe from carbon monoxide poisoning just because you have a detector installed. Carbon monoxide detectors are intended to protect healthy adults, so take the ages and health of family members into account when assessing the effectiveness of a detector. Also, be aware that the average life span of many carbon monoxide detectors is about 2 years. The 'test' feature on many detectors checks the functioning of the alarm and not the status of the detector. There are detectors that last longer, indicate when they need to be replaced, and have power supply backups -- you need to check to see whether a particular model has the features you require. When deciding whether or not to purchase a carbon monoxide detector, you need to consider not only the number and type of carbon monoxide sources, but also the construction of the building. Newer building may have more airtight construction and may be better insulated, which make it easier for carbon monoxide to accumulate

[Greg Keene, CPI]

Roy - what is your source on this info? Would only site this if I can site the source.
Thanks

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by gkeene

Roy - what is your source on this info? Would only site this if I can site the source.
Thanks

try these if not send me email .. Roy

http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthi...odetectors.htm

http://www.pcfd.com/smokeco.htm

[Greg Keene, CPI]

Thanks

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Just these 2 sentences is enough to scar any smart individual from buying that type of unit.
Yes but then there is the rest of the populous.

1: There have been no known deaths associated with the use of these units.

2: The oxygen depletion sensor makes them reasonably safe and in use are much like using your gas oven or stove top for long periods.
They are not to be used as the primary heat source.

[Michael Larson]

Robert, I know people who still use kerosene heaters indoors.

Given a choice, the propane fired unit is much safer.

The kerosene heaters don't have the oxygen depletion sensor as far as I know.

Are you afraid of gas ranges too.

My mother was.

[ROBERT V. YOUNG]

Do not laugh Mr.L but my friends wife got a new gas stove and she was so afraid of it she did not cook on it for the first 2 years.
They lived out of can cooking after that.
Myself Mr.L.
I am use to the real thing. I do not like artificial of any kind, it's just preference.
I see very little propane fire places.
I live up north during the winter month for weeks at a time when younger and kerosene heaters, propane, wood stove, fireplace.
Its all good when you are cold and-need warmth and hungry and have to cook Mr.Larson.
Those sentences just caught me off guard.
Thanks.....Robert

[agallatin]

My smoke / CO detectors were dead in less than four years . I surly won't put much faith in such things , when they may or may not work . Better to keep up maintenance than to think all is well cause I have a detector . I believe people rely to much on gadgetry to save them , then when something goes wrong , law suite .

[Michael Larson]

An ODS is not an electronic gizmo.