Non Tempered New Window

[John Evans]

Bob,
They are definitely not tempered, I took a lot of time to carefully look for the stamp. The owner also stated that the glass is not tempered. This is a replacement window, 2008.

[John Evans]

The windows referred to in a recent post were "divided" with grids. The window glass referred to in this thread is not divided or protected in any way. IRC section R308.4 paragraph 7. Exposed area of individual pane larger than 9 Sq. Ft.; Bottom edge less than 18 inches above the floor; Top edge more than 36" above the floor: One or more walking surfaces within 36" horizontally of the glazing. Looks like a window replacement will be required.

[John Evans]

Marcel,

Thanks for the links.

[relliott]

Originally Posted by jevans

Bob,
They are definitely not tempered, I took a lot of time to carefully look for the stamp. The owner also stated that the glass is not tempered. This is a replacement window, 2008.

Ok just my first response as sometimes they are covered .

How would you react to this?

[John Evans]

Bob,
In my humble opinion, the window sashes do not appear to exceed 9 Sq. Ft. The door is divided, not a continuous glazing. Each should be acceptable.

[relliott]

This was not measured but that bottom window was big and at the bottom of the stairs.

Now go past codes and numbers and tell me if you see a problem .

Does the floor surface look slippery ?.

Could the fact it is right at the bottom of the stairs be a factor ?

I think I would like to know is the safety glass code only to prevent falling outside and through or to prevent what?

Do I go outside the scope if I want to know all reasoning behind a code ?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

I guess, it depends how we read this Bob.
Seems to be a lot to interpetation here.

Hazardous locations requiring labeled safety glazing materials in the model codes are defined to include:

· Glazing in swinging doors except jalousies.

· Glazing in fixed and sliding panels of sliding patio door assemblies and panels in other doors, including walk-in closets and wardrobes.

· Glazing in storm doors.

· Glazing in unframed swinging doors.

· Glazing in doors and enclosures for hot tubs, whirlpools, saunas, steam rooms, bathtubs, and showers.

· Glazing in any portion of a building wall enclosing these compartments where the exposed edge of the glazing is less than 60 inches above a standing surface.

· Glazing in an individual fixed or operable panel adjacent to a door where the nearest exposed edge of the glazing is within a 24-inch arc of either vertical edge of the door in a closed position and where the bottom exposed edge of the glazing is less than 60 inches above a walking surface.
(Panels where there is an intervening wall or other permanent barrier between the door and the glazing are exempt.)

· Glazing in an individual fixed or operable panel where the exposed area of an individual pane is greater than 9 square feet and the exposed bottom edge is less than 18 inches above the floor, the exposed top edge is greater than 36 inches above the floor, and one or more walking surface(s) are within 36 inches horizontally of the plane of the glazing.

Exceptions include a panel with a protective bar (1 1/2 inches or more in height and capable of withstanding a horizontal load of 50 pounds per linear foot without contacting the glass installed on the accessible sides of the glazing 34 inches to 38 inches above the floor), and an outboard pane in insulating glass units or multiple-lite construction where the bottom exposed edge of the glass is 25 feet or more above any grade, roof, walking surface, or other horizontal or sloped surface adjacent to the glass interior.

· Glazing in guards and railings, including structural baluster panels and nonstructural in-fill panels, regardless of height above a walking surface.

· Glazing in walls and fences enclosing indoor and outdoor swimming pools and spas when the bottom edge of the glazing on the pool side is less than 60 inches above a walking surface on the pool side of the glazing and the glazing is within 60 inches horizontally of a water's edge.

· Glazing adjacent to stairways, landings, and ramps when it is within 36 inches horizontally of a walking surface, within 60 inches horizontally of a bottom tread of a stairway in any direction, and the bottom edge is less than 60 inches above the plane of the adjacent walking surface (or stairway, measured from the nose of the tread).


So what do we go by in your Case Bob?

Marcel

[relliott]

Marcel does the 9 sq foot rule apply in all those situations ?

If not ,do you know why?

The answer will help me explain maybe.

Perhaps what I am getting at is that the code is for keeping you from getting cut as unless I misinterpret the 9 sq foot rule does not apply to shower - tub areas or sidelights.

To me the bottom of those stairs looks like a safety hazard in a commercial setting.I recommend a horizontal bar with 50 pound PLF at the 36 inch height requirement using code as a guide and my own i ntellect for reasoning.

I use code as my guide but also recommend what I feel is right.

I hope some get it ,though there are many that go only by the code book. Big mistake in my opinion ,as that is what it is all about to me. (opinion)

We went through something similar in discussion over GFCI in a finished basement about 2 months ago, and I see this as a call, myself.Maybe I am wrong.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by relliott

Marcel does the 9 sq foot rule apply in all those situations ?

If not ,do you know why?

The answer will help me explain maybe.

In all the searching I done on this subject, what I posted above just keeps popping up everywhere, so it appears to be the standard guideline if you wish.

What puzzles me is how one reads it.
It appears one could interpet the guidelines in different ways.
Your guess is as good as mine right now.
CFR 16 1201 CII keeps coming up for a reference to safety glazing that appears to only be accessible by mail.

Marcel

[relliott]

Originally Posted by mcyr

In all the searching I done on this subject, what I posted above just keeps popping up everywhere, so it appears to be the standard guideline if you wish.

What puzzles me is how one reads it.
It appears one could interpet the guidelines in different ways.
Your guess is as good as mine right now.
CFR 16 1201 CII keeps coming up for a reference to safety glazing that appears to only be accessible by mail.

Marcel

Yeah i have all the great illustrations and clips thanks to guys like you.
Now put down the book and tell me your gut feeling about tenants with kids and heavy bags using that vestibule area.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by relliott

Yeah i have all the great illustrations and clips thanks to guys like you.
Now put down the book and tell me your gut feeling about tenants with kids and heavy bags using that vestibule area.

Well, Bob, after just reading this article, I would have to say that the glass in your photo should be called out as a potential safety hazard and should be safety glass.

http://www.hankeyandbrown.com/xsites...afetyGlass.pdf

Marcel

[relliott]

What made you think this way from the PDF.?
On my way out but look forward to your answer.

I have parts of that article from Google books , but yours looks clearer.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Find the code definition of a "walking surface".

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Walking surface is the area within three feet of glazing that can be walked on and any glazing lower than 18" needs to be safety glass.

http://www.sandiego.gov/development-...8/bnl24-01.pdf

[John Evans]

Bob,

After reading your comments and reviewing your photograph, I would not disagree with the need for a safety bar. I will say that it is certainly easier to make these calls when you have actually inspected the area. Safety is one of my biggest concerns during all of my inspections. There have been many situations where I have noted a potential or existing safety issue without consulting any code publications. My initial reason for starting this thread was for confirmation from other inspectors who are more experienced, even though it is quite obvious that the window in question will need to be replaced. I fully appreciate all comments and information gained from this board. There is always something to learn in this business.