Straw Poll re Attics

[tneumann]

Awww Roy...it's ok.

I like doing crawls and attics for another reason...

I can get away for awhile and think without being bothered by the Realtor and his "how much do you think it will cost to get the furnace looked at?"

Sigh...htf do they not know this stuff already?

[A Dan Leleika]

Originally Posted by bsilowash

...Who will pay for the damage if you miss a joist and step through the ceiling ...

That is what GL insurance is for!

Originally Posted by bsilowash

...client was disappointed because I told him I wasn't going to crawl through the attic since it had no floor.

Of course he was. People have expectations and when their expectations aren't met, they are upset. The way to be on the same page is to reveal to a customer what your "Inspection" entails and what you won't "Inspect" before they buy your product. We have to communicate with our clients so their expectations aren't shattered at the point of sale.

Originally Posted by bsilowash

...To me, thats' just unsafe. And unnecessary.

I'm sorry, but, these areas are the heart and soul of a structure and its systems. If I don't inspect them, then I feel I will miss something and therefore not be providing a good product that my client paid me for. Then my customers expectations of my service will be shattered and thus I won't be in business much longer...the referrals won't be coming my way.

If I felt that it was unsafe and unnecessary to crawl these areas, I would not have entered the Home Inspection field.

Originally Posted by bsilowash

... If that's your pleasure, go for it... I won't do it.

I do and that is why most of my clients will pay my prices, because when they hire my company they get what they expect a "Home Inspection" to be. Their expectations are exceeded when they hire the "A-Team".

Thank you for listening

[rmccullough]

Originally Posted by Dave Morris

I enter every space I possibly can. That is what my client pays me to do. Occasionally there are attics or crawlspaces that I cannot navigate and note it as so, but it is pretty rare in my area.

IMHO
My clients pay me to make sure thier new reisidence are in a SAFE and SANITARY condition and to inform them of any REPAIRS OR CORRECTIONS NEEDED and FUTURE MAINTENANCE ITEMS.

So if you can offer some advice I am always interested in hearing about it.

But to CRAWL into every space. To me, that is not needed to properly evaluate the property. I guess after 17 yrs and over 15,000 inspections under my belt I my experience and knowledge can override that CRAWL INTO EVERY SPACE scenario.
IMHO.
PS. I would look at the hatch. Then if there is evidence of something report it. Experience and knowledge are your BEST tools to have with you. * Let me rephrase that. **CORRECT KNOWLEDGE is your BEST tool to have with you.** Experience takes time to gather. Go figure.

[gbrasseur]

Originally Posted by tneumann

I have yet to see an attic with a floor...so If I only crawled attics with floors...I would never crawl any attics......

I like em.....I like nasty crawlspaces also.....makes me feel like I'm earning my money...

I Always like to read your responses Tony! Nice to to a good sense of humor. And you do a complete job, as always, for your customer.

[bsilowash]

Well, I wish I had used the voting feature now

By my count, it's 7 for crawling and 6 for observing from the hatch. Hopefully, I'll be able to post the attachment.

I appreciate your feedback. My contention is that I felt very comfortable with inspecting everything that needed to be seen from the hatch.

1. I had already walked the roof (which BTW, is not always possible... high flat roofs with no access hatch, or too steep) and observed the leaks around the chimney, which could be seen from the hatch.
2. By turning off the attic light, I could see that some of the soffit vents were covered.
3. I determined the thickness of the insulation.

So I'm not sure what else could be gained by entering the space. The risk/benefit ratio was too high for me, in spite of insurance coverage.

I was satisfied with the standards of practice, which says:



II. The inspector is not required to:

A. Enter the attic or unfinished spaces that are not readily accessible or where entry could cause damage or pose a safety hazard to the inspector in his or her opinion.

That was my opinion. You're each entitiles to yours too, and that's what I wanted to learn.

[tneyedli1]

Originally Posted by bsilowash

Situation: No floor in attic, loose insulation covers joists, headroom limited to 42" to the bottom of the ridge beam of a hip roof. Access is through a hatch.

Question: Do you enter the attic or inspect from the hatch?

Weasel, squirm, wriggle or belly crawl you name it. Take a picture towards the hatch. I have found many conditions that could have come back and bit me. Go to the ends if you can and if not, document your liability.
T.Neyedli
www.alphahomeinspections.ca

[Brian E. Kelly]

If I can not see where my feet are going because it is covered by insulation, then my feet do not go there.

[Charley L. Bottger]

Originally Posted by bsilowash

Well, I wish I had used the voting feature now

By my count, it's 7 for crawling and 6 for observing from the hatch. Hopefully, I'll be able to post the attachment.

I appreciate your feedback. My contention is that I felt very comfortable with inspecting everything that needed to be seen from the hatch.

1. I had already walked the roof (which BTW, is not always possible... high flat roofs with no access hatch, or too steep) and observed the leaks around the chimney, which could be seen from the hatch.
2. By turning off the attic light, I could see that some of the soffit vents were covered.
3. I determined the thickness of the insulation.
4. So I'm not sure what else could be gained by entering the space. The risk/benefit ratio was too high for me, in spite of insurance coverage.

I was satisfied with the standards of practice, which says:




II. The inspector is not required to:

A. Enter the attic or unfinished spaces that are not readily accessible or where entry could cause damage or pose a safety hazard to the inspector in his or her opinion.

That was my opinion. You're each entitiles to yours too, and that's what I wanted to learn.

That was a Cake walk Charley rule #1 If my head will fit my body will follow At 5' 8" and 148 LBS not many snake holes I don't fit into. Too many chimney flashing leak in my area not to go, and I see a brick chimney in your pic.

I see to many inspectors looking for reasons not to enter a crawl space or an attic some folks call them SOP''s I call them excuses and that is my opinion.

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[David J. Moran]

I would first view from the hatch and depending on how much accessiblilty there really determines how far to go. I do keep a couple of pieces of 2'x4' pieces of plywood in the back of the truck to help in certain instances.

[jbreazeale]

Whether I crawl around in such an attic as the one pictured depends on what I see that makes me suspicious. If there is bowing in the decking, I want to know why, even if I have to duck walk the ceiling joists. In the case of the attic pictured, I want to at least look around that chimney, regardless. If the roof is in good condition, the ventilation is adequate, and there are no exhaust fans venting into the attic, why bother taking a chance on busting some ceiling rock...not to mention my butt. There are safety issues to be taken into account. Anything else can be viewed from the access.

[mporras]

Case by case basis... If I feel that I can safely crawl through most of the attic, I will. I cannot tell you how many improper electrical repairs I find in the attics around here. Everything from splices "fixed" with masking tape to bare wires sitting on the insulation. On occasion, I will find an attic where the insulation is knee deep, and I will just inspect it from the furthest point I can get to, and make VERY sure the client understand why I couldn't get to the back of the attic. I explain in detail, not just write "Attic Inaccessible". I heard abut an inspector around here who got sued successfully because he just wrote "Attic Inaccessible" but did not explain WHY it was inaccessible.

P.S. There was fire damage in the attic that a buyer's inspector found after the inspector's original clients tried to sell the home.

[fwhitson]

If you do not go "into" an attic make sure your client knows exactly why & have a good answer if they ask for a name of someone that will!
Some people are just looking for a reason to sue & if you miss anything you just might give them what they are looking for.
DO NOT guess or make up something to put in your report!!
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[lcapaul]

Originally Posted by bsilowash

Well, I wish I had used the voting feature now

By my count, it's 7 for crawling and 6 for observing from the hatch. Hopefully, I'll be able to post the attachment.

I appreciate your feedback. My contention is that I felt very comfortable with inspecting everything that needed to be seen from the hatch.

1. I had already walked the roof (which BTW, is not always possible... high flat roofs with no access hatch, or too steep) and observed the leaks around the chimney, which could be seen from the hatch.
2. By turning off the attic light, I could see that some of the soffit vents were covered.
3. I determined the thickness of the insulation.

So I'm not sure what else could be gained by entering the space. The risk/benefit ratio was too high for me, in spite of insurance coverage.

I was satisfied with the standards of practice, which says:



II. The inspector is not required to:

A. Enter the attic or unfinished spaces that are not readily accessible or where entry could cause damage or pose a safety hazard to the inspector in his or her opinion.

That was my opinion. You're each entitiles to yours too, and that's what I wanted to learn.

What's all that "dark" suff laying around the vertical support post in your picture?

[Peter C. Russell]

If I can't or don't want to go into the attic for what ever reason I use my digital camera and let the pictures speak for themselves.

I do enter most attics though and ware a mask.

[pkelley]

I entered an attic with 10 ' head room.Joist were all covered with batt insulation then spray in ins . Everything went fine , heading out ... and something that caught my eye ,I turned and looked and then started to loose my balance .nothing too easily to grab on with such high rafters and steeped ever so lightly on to the ceiling . the damage was done. The agent asked me if everything was o.k. up there,I said yes ,well we have a little problem down here! luckily my foot did not go through . I brought in a guy to repair my Oops, and all is well. Just embarrassing though . client ended-up on not buying the house due to other issues.