100amp upgrade to 200 amp

[jmayeaux]

I recently did an inspection. When I ran the dishwasher I noticed that the lightsin the kitchen and dining room "flickered". I also found that the home owner had done some wiring in the garage himself and the garage receptacles had open grounds. I found that the home ( 3bdrm 2 bath) had a 100 amp panel. All the circuits were full and one was double tapped. four of the circuits had double breakers on them. I called for an electrician to evaluate the wiring and the panel I called out a defect on the panel mainly because of the double tap and recommended an upgrade to a 200 amp panel.
I later got a call from the Realtor telling me that I was wrong to call the panel defective.
should I have used term other than defective?

[Speedy Petey]

The realtor was completely justified in his criticism.
The "panel" was not the defect, the double tap was. To call out the whole panel as defectivemight have seemed like the easy way out, but it could (and did) come back to bite you.

Also, why are you recommending a service upgrade??? Is that in the SOP for H-I's in your area?
Without knowing the details 100 amps might have been perfectly fine for that house.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by jmayeaux

I recently did an inspection. When I ran the dishwasher I noticed that the lightsin the kitchen and dining room "flickered". I also found that the home owner had done some wiring in the garage himself and the garage receptacles had open grounds. I found that the home ( 3bdrm 2 bath) had a 100 amp panel. All the circuits were full and one was double tapped. four of the circuits had double breakers on them. I called for an electrician to evaluate the wiring and the panel I called out a defect on the panel mainly because of the double tap and recommended an upgrade to a 200 amp panel.
I later got a call from the Realtor telling me that I was wrong to call the panel defective.
should I have used term other than defective?

What was the wording you used in the report?

[jmayeaux]

The complaint was that I called the panel defective.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by jmayeaux

The complaint was that I called the panel defective.

Speedy's right. With the info you've supplied to us, the panel wasn't defective.

[briddle]

In my opinion, you should have called out the double tap and recommended that the electrical system be evaluated by a licensed electrician. Put in writing that the lights flickered and that there were other concerns. Then stand back and let the electrician do his thing. Maybe nothing was defective, but someone didn't wire something correctly. Who knows? That would be for the electrician to figure out. You should be very careful calling anything defective, if you are not 100% sure. Also, at my school, I was taught to say it appears to be defective.

[jmayeaux]

Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I realize my mistake, and that I should have worded it differently. I did recommend that an electrician evaluate the system. I did put the other items in the report. The issue was the word defective.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by jmayeaux

The issue was the word defective.

Yeah, that was an unfortunate choice of words. To call the whole panel defective would be akin to calling the whole house defective if you find a sufficient amount of things inside that concern you.

[Mathew Hawley]

Jack,

Here is a phrase for double tapped breakers:

Two wires are connected to several breaker designed for only one wire. This is known as a “double-tap” and is a defective condition which should be corrected by a qualified electrical contractor.

As far as upgrading the service here is another phrases. I use this one as an advisory comment and not so much as a defect:

The house is supplied with the original 100-amp service, which is considered a minimal service. Some insurance companies will not insure a home with less than a 150-amps.

Hope this helps, there is a thread with some canned phrases that you can customize to your liking. I saw it under (Report Writing) the other day.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by mhawley

The house is supplied with the original 100-amp service, which is considered a minimal service. Some insurance companies will not insure a home with less than a 150-amps.

How many will not write a policy for 100A? Which ones? Why not? Why 150 and not 200?
What % of homes currently has 100A service? Are none of them insured?

[jmayeaux]

[quote=mhawley]Jack,

Here is a phrase for double tapped breakers:

Two wires are connected to several breaker designed for only one wire. This is known as a “double-tap” and is a defective condition which should be corrected by a qualified electrical contractor.

As far as upgrading the service here is another phrases. I use this one as an advisory comment and not so much as a defect:

The house is supplied with the original 100-amp service, which is considered a minimal service. Some insurance companies will not insure a home with less than a 150-amps.

Hope this helps, there is a thread with some canned phrases that you can customize to your liking. I saw it under (Report Writing) the other day.
[
Thanks Matthew I appreciate the helpful feedback.
/quote]

[Mathew Hawley]

Richard,

There are numerous insurance company underwriters that will not insure a home with a 100-amp service. We do several hundred 4- Point insurance inspection yearly on homes built prior to 1980.

Some will insure them some wont. The same applies for homes with fuses, fuse blocks as a main disconnects and single strand aluminum wiring. Some insurance companies will not insure homes with any of the above and will require repairs or a complete upgrade.

You can probally get that info from the Dept of Insurance Regulations or call some insurance companies. I do not know why some do and some don't. We advise our customers of the potential problem the may run into when shopping for insurace.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by mhawley

Richard,

There are numerous insurance company underwriters that will not insure a home with a 100-amp service. We do several hundred 4- Point insurance inspection yearly on homes built prior to 1980.

Some will insure them some wont. The same applies for homes with fuses, fuse blocks as a main disconnects and single strand aluminum wiring. Some insurance companies will not insure homes with any of the above and will require repairs or a complete upgrade.

You can probally get that info from the Dept of Insurance Regulations or call some insurance companies. I do not know why some do and some don't. We advise our customers of the potential problem the may run into when shopping for insurace.

Seems load anaylsis would be in order before a blanket statement would be made.

How many of your clients do you know of that were denied insurance do to 100 amp service?

[Bob Elliott]

Since the majority, key word Majority of most Homes and Condos have 100 amp service or less, I would have to agree with Rick on this one.

Wow I could scare alot of people with that.
Perhaps I should switch trades.

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by relliott

I would have to agree with Rick on this one.