125 amp main 200 amp sub (Is it a issue)

[David C. Macy]

I wanted to post this to see what others say.

Main disconnect located in garage. 125 amps.

Sub(remote distribution panel) located in basement with a 200 amp breaker. SEC was rated for 125 amps.

Q1) What is the service size 125 or 200 amps?
Q2) Is the 200 amp breaker acceptable in this application, are the SEC properly sized?

Q3) Seperate question
What are your thoughts on the split bolt connection for the GEC? Looks like a crappy connection, could we not just go to the available bar on the panel? This connects to the sub

Q4) I know the bonding screw needs to be removed at the sub, but is it acceptable to be there and not be in contact with the panel?

I now know the answer thanks to my friend Jeff Pope. (You are a good man to answer my calls)

I should post the other question to I had on the Bonding jumper to the grounding terminal.

I would of mis reported both if I had not talked to Jeff.

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by dmacy

I wanted to post this to see what others say.

Main disconnect located in garage. 125 amps.

Sub(remote distribution panel) located in basement with a 200 amp breaker. SEC was rated for 125 amps.

Q1) What is the service size 125 or 200 amps?
Q2) Is the 200 amp breaker acceptable in this application, are the SEC properly sized?

Q3) Seperate question
What are your thoughts on the split bolt connection for the GEC? Looks like a crappy connection, could we not just go to the available bar on the panel? This connects to the sub

Q4) I know the bonding screw needs to be removed at the sub, but is it acceptable to be there and not be in contact with the panel?

I now know the answer thanks to my friend Jeff Pope. (You are a good man to answer my calls)

I should post the other question to I had on the Bonding jumper to the grounding terminal.

I would of mis reported both if I had not talked to Jeff.

Q1- 125 amp
Q2- Yes, since the conductors are protected by the 125 amp main. This could also be a Main Lug Only (MLO) panel if in the same dwelling.
Q3- The split bolt connection is improper since the GEC needs to connect directly the the neutral of the service disconnect. The EGC going to the subpanel can also connect there. The neutral should be bonded to the enclosure at the service disconnect.
Q4- If you mean that it's only threading into the plastic and not connected to the enclosure then IMO it can remain. Might fool someone in the future however.

[Sean Fogarty]

My question is what type of appliances are in the home. is everything gas or electric? With that many circuits on the sub panel, the main might be overloaded.

[Jim Port]

The number of circuits is not directly related to the actual loads on the circuits. Someone may have just divided the circuits by area instead of load. You also have non-coindent loads where only one runs at a time like the heat and air conditioning.

[Sean Fogarty]

The number of circuits is not directly related to the actual loads on the circuits. Someone may have just divided the circuits by area instead of load. You also have non-coindent loads where only one runs at a time like the heat and air conditioning.

Your answer still does not justify my original question. Without having all the info on what appliances are being used then you wont know. If everything appliance wise is electric and in a 2000 sf home, the the service is under rated IMO. I noticed one of the breakers was tagged double oven. So if both ovens are being used, the water heater is working and the heat pump running all at the same time, don't you think that could tax the 125 amps. Plus regular lighting being on. Great chance this could happen at Christmas time with family over. David would have to elaborate on this to know for sure.

[David C. Macy]

Range top was gas, dryer was gas.

I thought the double oven was both.

[Sean Fogarty]

Furnace??? Gas I am sure. They dont leave much room for upgrades do they David.

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by sfogarty

Your answer still does not justify my original answer. Without having all the info on what appliances are being used then you wont know. If everything appliance wise is electric and in a 2000 sf home, the the service is under rated IMO. I noticed one of the breakers was tagged double oven. So if both ovens are being used, the water heater is working and the heat pump running all at the same time, don't you think that could tax the 125 amps. Plus regular lighting being on. Great chance this could happen at Christmas time with family over. David would have to elaborate on this to know for sure.

Sean,
I see your point but as Jim noted the size and number of OCPD's is not really a good indicator of whether or not the service is adequate. Only a load calculation can accurately determine the required size for a service. Is adequacy in the size of the service even in question in David's post?

[Sean Fogarty]

Is adequacy in the size of the service even in question in David's post?

No, that was not a question, and I am by no means saying David missed anything. I was mainly pointing out the fact that with all the right factors the home could be undersized. That 200 amp panel was designed to take on more than 125 amps, so the possiblility of adding more is there. I think the buyer should know that the home they are about to purchase is limited in changing major appliances because of the service. I occasionaly find homes with 100 and 125 amp service, and I make sure to explain to the buyer that it IS correct, but your options are limited.

[David C. Macy]

I actually discussed having a load calculation done by an electrical contractor with the client. Something my client may consider if she decides to add any other circuits.

That 200 amp breaker is just being used as a switch in this case and I believe the max capacity for the panels would be 125 amps.

When I talked to Mr. Jeff Pope he explained it to me, I always seem to forget when this senerio happens again. Like in another 25-50 inspections.

If I did not talk to Jeff I would of improperly reported this as a safety issue, the agents would of had an electrician come out and say this is compliant and I would of looked like an idiot.

So I really am appreciative of Jeff explaining to me and I posted so others would not make the same mistake I almost made.

[Frank P. Newman]

IMHO, whether or not the panel and service is correctly sized for the load connected is well beyond the SOP for home inspections and a HI can create unnecessary liabiity for themselves by stating an opinion they are not qualified (or being paid) to make. While not intending to point a finger at any HI, I personally would not do that unless I had been hired to do an engineering evaluation. While the load question has not been answered, the condition is not hazardous in that the 125 amp breaker will protect the system if the load is excessive under some conditions.