2 prong outlets and computer equipment

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by thowell

Do 2 prong outlets pose a problem for computers a/d electronic equipment? I have a client that's about to walk away from a house because of the 2 wire system. I suggested asking a qualified electrician. Is there an issue here?
Tim

Be careful trying to persuade a client as to what is a problem. If they think a two wire system is a problem, it's a problem to them. Maybe when you do their next inspection it will have more wires.

[James R. Szczesny]

I would just break the third ground prong off a 3 prong power strip so I can plug multiple 3 prong items in a 2 prong outlet>> yea thats the ticket!!



please dont follow this advise

[Frank P. Newman]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Be careful trying to persuade a client as to what is a problem. If they think a two wire system is a problem, it's a problem to them. Maybe when you do their next inspection it will have more wires.

If asked that question specifically, I would explain the situation to the clinet and advise them to make certain that they use their appliances in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. However, I also would probably say that having two-prong outlets in a home of that age is not prohibited, but would stop short of describing how to 'bypass' the situation.

[Jae Williams]

There is nothing inherently wrong with a two-wire system, but the way we use it may be. Today’s electrical appliance needs are far greater than they were 40 or 50 years ago, and using yesterday’s supply to satisfy today’s demand may often become very dangerous.

The use of three-hole ground-type receptacles on a two-wire electrical system gives the impression that safety protection is present in the circuit, when in reality it is not. Older style two-hole receptacles are still available and should be installed to eliminate this false sense of security. Three-hole receptacles may be more convenient (and often less expensive), but are often installed without giving consideration to this situation.
The use of a three-pronged plug in an ungrounded receptacle can be a safety concern. The plug has the grounding provision for a reason and electrical appliances should always be used for the function they were intended to perform.

All such installations should be labeled “No Equipment Ground” on each receptacle that applies. Grounding of all “three-pronged” receptacles or protection with a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) on each is recommended for safety reasons.

“Two-hole” outlets are not grounded and should never be used with a “three-pronged” plug. Adapters have been devised for this usage, but there is still no adequate ground and such adapters are not always safe. Until the electrical system is upgraded for “three-pronged” usage, it would be prudent to not use adapters, extension cords, or “three-pronged” plugs in any way. Consider that “three-pronged” plugs have been engineered for use with a “three-hole” grounded receptacle.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/524.html

[Joe Farsetta]

“Two-hole” outlets are not grounded and should never be used with a “three-pronged” plug. Adapters have been devised for this usage, but there is still no adequate ground and such adapters are not always safe.

This statement is a load of crap.

You're kidding me, right?

[Jae Williams]

Consider that “three-pronged” plugs have been engineered for use with a “three-hole” grounded receptacle.

The manufacturer requires a three-hole receptacle, and that's what I work with.

Somehow, I don't believe the manufacturer consulted you before making their determination, so I'll stick with what they say.

[Jae Williams]

Time after time, licensed electricians have agreed with me (I suppose there were some who didn't, but that was never presented to me.) It is possible they agreed because it meant work for them...but I doubt it.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

To the point:

"The house is wired with 2-prong ungrounded receptacles. While common years ago and still acceptable today, the lack of a grounding conductor will limit the use of certain appliances such as refrigerators, washing machines, computers, etc. that require a ground. Dedicated circuits may have to be run to properly and safely use such appliances. You should consult with a licensed electrician about the limitations of this older wiring system."

[Joe Farsetta]

The house is wired with 2-prong ungrounded receptacles.

No. This statement may or may not be correct.

The house is wired using older 2-prong receptacles. While the receptacle itself may, indeed, be grounded, it lacks the ability to extend the system ground to a device which may require it. An upgrade to 3-prong GROUNDING receptacles may be warranted, if the existing system supports this configuration, and if the need arises.

You are both assuming that a two-wire receptacle is ungrounded. This is simply not true. the ONLY way that a receptacle (ANY receptacle) is UNGROUNDED is if there is nothing extending the system ground to the receptacle.

Two-wire armor-sheathed cable and 3-wire non-metallic cable may extend the ground to the receptacle box. The mounting screws for the receptacle (at the upper and lower tabs) mechanically and electrically bond the receptacle to the gronded receptacle box; thusly GROUNDING the receptacle.

A cheater plug may indeed be UL listed and LEGAL for the purpose of extending the system ground to a 3-prong device that calls for it.

The ONLY way to detwemine if a receptacle is ungrounded is to examine the system and distribution cables associated with it.

Absent of this effort, the rest is hoopla, balderdash, and poppycock.

Stop getting hung up on what the receptacle looks like or doesnt look like! INSPECT the SYSTEM!

The SYSTEM will determine what is going on, and provide you with the datum needed to convey ACCURATE information, so your client can make an INFORMED decision.

[James H. Bushart]

The two wire system is neither a defect nor is it, by itself, unsafe. It should not be called out as a defect in a home inspection.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

The two wire system is neither a defect nor is it, by itself, unsafe. It should not be called out as a defect in a home inspection.

A Material defect is a problem with a residential real property or any portion of it that would have a significant adverse impact on the value of the property or that involves an unreasonable risk to people on the property.


????????

[David P. OKeefe]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Two-wire armor-sheathed cable and 3-wire non-metallic cable may extend the ground to the receptacle box. The mounting screws for the receptacle (at the upper and lower tabs) mechanically and electrically bond the receptacle to the gronded receptacle box; thusly GROUNDING the receptacle.

Joe , in the above situation, does the receptacle box need to be metal or can it be plastic in order to bond the receptacle to the box?

[Christopher Currins]

If you plug a 3-prong adapter (cheater plug) into a 2-prong outlet and then plug in a 3-prong tester and first it reads open ground and then you connect the metal tab to the plate cover screw and it now reads correct circuit.

Would this identify the 2-prong outlet as being grounded? Or could this be giving a false reading to the tester?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by jbushart

The two wire system is neither a defect nor is it, by itself, unsafe. It should not be called out as a defect in a home inspection.

I didn't say it was a defect. My statement simply informs the client that the house has an older system that probably is not grounded and advises them to consult with an electrician about the limitations. I would think a client would be pretty angry if I failed to do so.

Similarly, I let them know that these older houses do not have as many outlets s new homes and they may need to add more.

I do not add these informational items to the Summary section (a section in my state relegated to items that need service or further investigation).

Regarding your statement about the receptacle box being grounded, in my experience that it rare. Mose 2 wire systems I see have no ground conductor at all. That is apparent by looking inside the panel.

[Jae Williams]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

You are both assuming that a two-wire receptacle is ungrounded. This is simply not true. the ONLY way that a receptacle (ANY receptacle) is UNGROUNDED is if there is nothing extending the system ground to the receptacle

And you are assuming that a more dilligent inspection was not made. In so much as I cannot recall you having been looking over my shoulder during an inspection, I feel safe in assuming that you were not present. In which case, keep you assumptions of my inspection ability to yourself.

I take strong exception to your claim:

"This statement is a load of crap."