2 prong outlets and computer equipment

[Jae Williams]

My statement that "two-hole receptacles are not grounded may be rather broad, it is 90% the rule rather than the except is this neighborhood. Metalic-clad cable has seldom been used around here and just as seldom has there been a ground wire included in the system.

Any such inclusion in a report may easily be edited or amended in any report to coincide with existing conditions.

[Blaine Wiley]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

To the point:

"The house is wired with 2-prong ungrounded receptacles. While common years ago and still acceptable today, the lack of a grounding conductor will limit the use of certain appliances such as refrigerators, washing machines, computers, etc. that require a ground. Dedicated circuits may have to be run to properly and safely use such appliances. You should consult with a licensed electrician about the limitations of this older wiring system."

The statement about these receptacles in my report is very similar to this. It has served me well for almost 15 years. In the areas in which I have worked, I have almost never seen anything but old cloth jacket two conductor romex type wiring used. Therefore, those receptacles would not be grounded.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

A Material defect is a problem with a residential real property or any portion of it that would have a significant adverse impact on the value of the property or that involves an unreasonable risk to people on the property.


????????

A two-wire system is working as it was intended to work. It is not "defective" and does not need to be replaced.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

A two-wire system is working as it was intended to work. It is not "defective" and does not need to be replaced.

So then, in your opinion having a 2 wire system does not have a "significant adverse impact effect on the value of the property".

Right?

[Joe Farsetta]

Jae,

Take the exception. It's not whether you inspected or not, its your broad statement, which is simply inaccurate. This is what I take exception to.

Absent of first establishing what the distribution system is comprised of, the comment regarding the receptacle (not outlet) being ungrounded is unsubstantiated. Where did you write in your post that you had examined the distribution system and discovered that there was no ground conductor present? Did I miss it somewhere?

Remember... The primary is the qualifier for the secondary; and that is my point. Far too many blanket statements. With many, there is also a clear mis-understanding of electrical facts.

To the gentleman who asked about the box needing to be metallic; the answer is "yes". The box must be metallic when armor-sheathed cabling is utilized. I had a homeowner wrap the sheathing with bare copper and extend this to the ground screw on the 3-prong receptacle. He was "shocked" and dismayed when I informed him that this was an unsatisfactory practice. I recommended evaluation by a licensed electrical contractor, who gave him the same advice.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

So then, in your opinion having a 2 wire system does not have a "significant adverse impact effect on the value of the property".

Right?

I'm not an appraiser. I am a home inspector.

I do not care or note matters relating to "value". I describe the present condition of the systems covered by my SOP. An electrical system that is functioning in the manner in which it is designed is not defective and is not reported as such. I may recommend a GFCI...which can easily be added to a two wire system....for additional safety.

But as to the value......it's not my job.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I'm not an appraiser. I am a home inspector.

I do not care or note matters relating to "value". I describe the present condition of the systems covered by my SOP. An electrical system that is functioning in the manner in which it is designed is not defective and is not reported as such. I may recommend a GFCI...which can easily be added to a two wire system....for additional safety.

But as to the value......it's not my job.

I agree with you to a point James but that is exactly what the WI HI law states.

Calling something out as a defect is not an appraiser's function or purpose but it is required for the HI.

So like it or not the WI HI is required to make this "value" determination if it even though he is restricted from offering an opinion as to the value of the home by this:

3. Limitations, Exceptions & Exclusions

V. An inspection does not determine the market value of the property or its marketability.

[Jae Williams]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Jae, Far too many blanket statements. With many, there is also a clear mis-understanding of electrical facts.

"There is nothing inherently wrong with a two-wire system, but the way we use it may be. Today’s electrical appliance needs are far greater than they were 40 or 50 years ago, and using yesterday’s supply to satisfy today’s demand may often become very dangerous."

This is the very first paragraph of my statement. The rest merely explains why "the way we use it may be".

[Jae Williams]

And BTW, I alter the "blanket ststement" to coincide with the conditions--rather frequently.

I have lifted many such statements from this board and altered them for my own usage (especially for roofs and some foundation information where I am not particularly strong).

[Michael Larson]

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to the purpose of the ground in a 3 wire appliance or receptacle.

This may help

A more technical explanation for those interested

[Rick Maday]

Originally Posted by mlarson

I agree with you to a point James but that is exactly what the WI HI law states.

And the InterNACHI SOP.

[James H. Bushart]

I am not an appraiser and have no knowledge of or anything to do with the past, present or future value of the home.

I am a home inspector....inspecting your fully functional and defect-free two-wire electrical system.....and reporting it accordingly, but I will still recommend GFCI in wet areas.

[ccurrins]

Originally Posted by ccurrins

If you plug a 3-prong adapter (cheater plug) into a 2-prong outlet and then plug in a 3-prong tester and first it reads open ground and then you connect the metal tab to the plate cover screw and it now reads correct circuit.

Would this identify the 2-prong outlet as being grounded? Or could this be giving a false reading to the tester?

bump?

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by mnahrgang

http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/produ...oducts_id=2913

I keep one of these in my computer bag for doing reports in older homes. The computer isn't protected, but it works.

Mark, your laptop is no worse off on that adaptor. Only the external power supply uses that ground pin, accomplishing almost nothing. What you are missing everywhere you plug in is a surge protector. Me too.