220 Circuit

[Gary T. Heller]

Does a 220 volt circuit have to be dedicated? Can a garage that has been converted to a wood working shop have 2, 220v outlets fed from the same circuit?

Breaker size is 20 amp and the wire is 10 awg but every 220v circuit I have seen has been a dedicated circuit.

[Tab M. Wilcox]

Gary, I would say that each outlet should have it's own circuit. I don't have any code reference for you, but I know one of the other posters will have it. I would also refer to the circuit as 240 volts. Have a good Super Bowl!

[Marc D. Shunk]

No, every 220 volt circuit does not have to be dedicated. It is fairly common in garages, for instance, to have multiple welder receptacles located all around the shop to plug in the welder closest to the workpiece. Another example would be a 20 amp, 240 volt circuit that would serve a piece of baseboard heat in the winter, and the AHU in the summer, since these are non-coincidental loads. This is covered in article 210 of the code. If these are receptacle outlets, the outlets must be rated at least as much as the circuit's overcurrent rating, with the exception being that 15 amp receptacles are permitted on 20 amp circuits if there's more than one receptacle. You can't, for instance, put 6 20 amp receptacles on a 50 amp circuit. All of those receptacles would need to have a 50 amp rating.

[Tab M. Wilcox]

Marc, Don't you think separate circuits would be preferred, since there is no guarantee that there would not be coincidental loads on the circuit?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Tab M. Wilcox

Marc, Don't you think separate circuits would be preferred, since there is no guarantee that there would not be coincidental loads on the circuit?

Nope, because no hazard will exist. The breaker will just trip. I don't wire this way, but it is permitted with certain caveats.

[Tab M. Wilcox]

So you are saying it would be perferred to have a situation where a nusiance trip could occur? I thinks this is a case where common sense overrules code requirements, wouldn't you say?

[Speedy Petey]

Tab, this is not always the case and I persoanlly do not think so. Given the choice, and in a perfect world, of course you'd want every larger or specific receptacle dedicated. Sometimes this is not practical or even necessary.
I have done several small one man shops for cabinet makers/carpenters. In a couple I put several 20A-240v receptacle on one circuit. Why? Because there would be almost no way to use two at the same time. And having several on a couple of different circuits they could always work things out.
Again, common sense prevails. Things like a big table saw and the dust collector would be dedicated, but in smaller or home shops every single receptacle dedicated is just not always worth it.

We have to remember, overkill does not always equal common sense.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Tab M. Wilcox

So you are saying it would be perferred to have a situation where a nusiance trip could occur?

Nope, havn't said that at all. In a home garage, it would be right difficult for the homeowner to use more than one welder at the same time, for instance. Just gotta use the noggin. If his buddy brought over his welder, and they both started to weld, the breaker would trip thus mitigating any hazard. This isn't a nuisance, since the homeowner opted for a budget install, thus paying for exactly what he got. As Speedy points out, you always dedicate a circuit to things that start automatically or things that are coincidental to other loads, like air compressors and dust collectors.

Using your logic, I'd run a dedicated circuit to each and every receptacle in the home, just in case someone wants to run a sweeper and a space heater from the same circuit.

[Tab M. Wilcox]

Marc, I think you know better than to think my logic would be to "run a dedicated circuit to each and every receptacle in the home, just in case someone wants to run a sweeper and a space heater from the same circuit."
You said "This isn't a nuisance, since the homeowner opted for a budget install, thus paying for exactly what he got." What about someone who bought a home with this type of installation? He would be calling you the inspector back to help figure why the breaker is tripping. Marc, are you a home inspector?

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by Tab M. Wilcox

He would be calling you the inspector back to help figure why the breaker is tripping.

Do you seriously think a new homeowner would call the guy who did the home inspection when a breaker trips?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Tab M. Wilcox

What about someone who bought a home with this type of installation? He would be calling you the inspector back to help figure why the breaker is tripping.

I don't know, maybe he'd just call an electrician instead. There is no hazard in what you describe, and that's all I'm saying. Feel free to write each and every one of these up if it gives you warm fuzzies to do so. The sky is not falling. I think that many home inspectors are unnecessarily scared of their own shadow.

Originally Posted by Tab M. Wilcox

Marc, are you a home inspector?

What do you think?

[Tab M. Wilcox]

Yes the buyer may call back the home inspector if they are having a problem. I never said the sky was falling. That's what I like, trying to help someone and spur discussion, and I get accused of calling out unneccesary things. Marc, I have no idea if you are a home inspector or not. I was just asking..

[dharris]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Do you seriously think a new homeowner would call the guy who did the home inspection when a breaker trips?

Yep.. When the electrican tells the customer that it will cost several hundred dollars to correct it, to justify his attempt on a sale, he'll then state the HI should have told you that you cannot run a welder, an AC unit and large compressor at the same time on that circuit.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Tab M. Wilcox

Yes the buyer may call back the home inspector if they are having a problem.

Originally Posted by dharris

.... he'll then state the HI should have told you that you cannot run a welder, an AC unit and large compressor at the same time on that circuit.

Some more reasons to add to the list why being a home inspector must suck. What you describe is not a defect or a hazard. Isn't that all you inspect for? What if the new homeowner called you and said that the soap dish in the bathroom was 5mm too far to the right, and they were having trouble replacing the bar of soap in the holder, is that your fault too? I'll stand on my statement that some of you guys are just scared of your own shadows.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by dharris

Yep.. When the electrican tells the customer that it will cost several hundred dollars to correct it, to justify his attempt on a sale, he'll then state the HI should have told you that you cannot run a welder, an AC unit and large compressor at the same time on that circuit.

Correct what? There is no defect.
Also, you are just putting words in our mouths. We BOTH specifically stated that things know to be high draw, and more importantly start by themselves, would always be dedicated. A compressor or A/C or dust collector, etc would fall under this category.
We are talking about general use receptacles. YES, 240v receptacles CAN be general use.

I get the impression that you guys are looking for a problem where none exists.