60 or 100 amp

[Allan G. Berdahl, CMI]

Had inspection today on an old 1958 home.
Electric panel was a Bulldog Pushmatic Electri-center. Rated 100A lugs. 120 volts AC. Service drop was 3 line (2 white and 1 Black) 200 amp meter. Al breaker positions taken (double tapping noted). No mainbreaker. How do I determine if its 60 or 100 amps a panel?
Dryer 30 amps Newer State water tank(1999). Only 2 outlets with open ground. All other circuits are showing proper ground. No other service upgrade tags noted.
Any assistance would be appreciated. Have pics but, not sure of how to download. Never done before.
Thanks
Allan

[mjones6]

Do you know what size the sec. conductors were?

[Allan G. Berdahl, CMI]

Mark,
Off hand, no.
I really took a brain fart on this one.

[jkogel]

AFAIK, To meet today's standards, 100 amps would require #3 Copper or #2 Aluminum. Any smaller would mean a lower capacity. I have the same problem with subpanels in condos sometimes when there's no main breaker. It comes down to judging the wire size.

Does anyone know of an insulated caliper tool?

[Allan G. Berdahl, CMI]

Magnifying the pics, looks like 8 strand 14 guage AL.

[mjones6]

14 ga. al.= 10a
4 ga. al. = 60amps
Probably 4ga. 60 amps.?

[Allan G. Berdahl, CMI]

Thanks Mark,
Just off the cuff, did thy use aluminum in 1958 for service entry drops or could this in fact be tinned copper? Don't have tools to do better then look at the electrical issues in the panel box. By chance, do you have the amps handy for 14 guage tinned copper or just copper?

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by jkogel

AFAIK, To meet today's standards, 100 amps would require #3 Copper or #2 Aluminum. Any smaller would mean a lower capacity. I have the same problem with subpanels in condos sometimes when there's no main breaker.

This is #4CU or #2AL.
EVERY panel has a main, somewhere. The problem is not that there is no main, it's that you can't find it.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by aberdahl

Had inspection today on an old 1958 home.
Electric panel was a Bulldog Pushmatic Electri-center. Rated 100A lugs. 120 volts AC. Service drop was 3 line (2 white and 1 Black) 200 amp meter. Al breaker positions taken (double tapping noted). No mainbreaker. How do I determine if its 60 or 100 amps a panel?
Dryer 30 amps Newer State water tank(1999). Only 2 outlets with open ground. All other circuits are showing proper ground. No other service upgrade tags noted.
Any assistance would be appreciated. Have pics but, not sure of how to download. Never done before.
Thanks
Allan

Just a quick note.
The service was almost certainly NOT 120v. This is an extremely rare thing anymore, and unheard of on a 1958 home with a breaker panel.

Also, the "meter" was NOT a "200A meter". It was a 200CL POCO supplied meter, and almost not worth mentioning since it is out of the control of the H-O or installer. IMO you would check the physical condition of the glass and that's it. The meter itself is meaning less.

You determine service size by the service conductors and the panel's rating.

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

This is #4CU or #2AL.

Thanks Speedy. You are in NY, we are in that there Canada, different codes.

[Speedy Petey]

I didn't even notice, and I usually do.
Sorry.

[Bob Elliott]

Allen , there is no issue with Aluminum to the main panel, as most are rated for it.
Do some homework on it and you will find the issue is at the inside wiring , when special provisions are not made to accomodate it.

[George P. Wells, CMI]

Originally Posted by aberdahl

Had inspection today on an old 1958 home.
Electric panel was a Bulldog Pushmatic Electri-center. Rated 100A lugs. 120 volts AC. Service drop was 3 line (2 white and 1 Black) 200 amp meter. Al breaker positions taken (double tapping noted). No mainbreaker. How do I determine if its 60 or 100 amps a panel?
Dryer 30 amps Newer State water tank(1999). Only 2 outlets with open ground. All other circuits are showing proper ground. No other service upgrade tags noted.
Any assistance would be appreciated. Have pics but, not sure of how to download. Never done before.
Thanks
Allan

Allan,

We have a few things on our web site that may help you with situations like this. One is an article I wrote titled "Determining the Size and Type of an Electrical Service". The other is a calculator I wrote called the "Residential Service Size Calculator".

I developed the original calulator for electricans and electrical contractors more than 20 years ago. I revised it to be easier to use and more useful for home inspectors.

We also have an electrical course that is free for InterNACHI members. The free course covers some advance topics for home inspectors. I am BestInspectors.Net's resident "Electrical guy" so I teach the electrical courses.