60 Amp ?

[Mathew Hawley]

Todays home inspection was a duplex built in 1958. The wires entering the home appeared to be for a 60 amp service.

Just needing confirmation.

Thanks in advance.

[David C. Macy]

It looks like the mains are 100 amps and it looks like a split bus FPE panel. It is really hard to tell from the photo the size of the mains in the panel. I cant see if there copper or aluminum.

There are a few issues that I would report.

One is the FPE issue and the panel should be replaced.

There is no main disconnect. More then 6 throws to shut off service.

It also looks some breakers have been added or replaced. (Not original)

There is a lot of debris at the botttom of the panel. Is it bugs, droppings, are the openings in the panel enclosure?


What do the other panels look like?

[Marc D. Shunk]

The riser is more than likely 100 amp down to the meter can, but beyond that, it's hard to say without more pics or more information. The tenant meters each have a 3/4" conduit coming out of them, so I'd guess each tenant service is 60 amp, but that's just a WAG. That FPE panel is a 100 amp rated panel, but I can't really make out what gauge it's fed with, so it's hard to see its actual usable ampacity is. Looks like there are handle ties, but the 6 moves of the hand rule probably doesn't apply if one of those disconnects outdoors feeds this panel. If that's the case, this panel should be set up as a subpanel, which it does not appear to be. Regardless, that panel is trashed anyhow. The third meter there, perhaps a landlord meter or a water heater meter, doesn't have a disconnect. All of the building's disconnects need to be grouped, and this one is not. Since the other two are right there, the one for that third meter needs to be there too, and it's not.

A lot of writing for a simple end result... this whole mess has served its useful life, there are lots of violations and several hazards, and it all needs redone.

[Mathew Hawley]

The other panel looked the same except it had had a couple of double tapped breakers. The system was not grounded.

For some reason these service conductors looked smaller than 100 amp to me.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by mhawley

The other panel looked the same except it had had a couple of double tapped breakers. The system was not grounded.

For some reason these service conductors looked smaller than 100 amp to me.

Determining "service size" on a multi-unit is tricky. The riser wire gauge and associated ampacity is quite different than the gauge and ampacity to each tennant panel.

[Mathew Hawley]

Hey marc,

The exterior disconnects in the photo are both 30 amp breakers. The panels have no space to add any additional breakers.

The service conductors looked smaller than a 100 amp. I know its hard to tell from the photo.

I will upload some additional photos.....one second.

Thanks guys for the help

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by mhawley

Hey marc,

The exterior disconnects in the photo are both 30 amp breakers. The panels have no space to add any additional breakers.

If that's what feeds the tenant panels, then each unit has a 30 amp "service". Don't know if you remember Paul's video he made some time back, but you go by the smallest link in the chain.

I put the word "service" in quotes, because in the case of a multi-family, the building only has one service, but each tenant has a feeder. I don't think there's any home inspector terminology to distinguish between the building service size and the tenant feeder size that is in common use; at least not that I am aware of. I think you all tend to call each tenant feeder a "service", but I'm not sure how you normally do that. In the case of a ganged meter socket in a multi-family unit, there really is only one "service", it is just metered and distributed several times.

Maybe Paul can make up a video for these multi-family deals, to help sort out some of this. It gets pretty heady in a hurry. Maybe there's already good information out for you on that?

[Gary L. Porter]

Looks like 100 Matt.