60 AMP....Right?

[rcramer]

For all of the electrical guru's out there. I do believe this is a 60 amp service right? I al would like to know if a double tap is acceptable on this pannel. It is a pushmatic, rated at a 100 amps. The double tap is on a 60 amp breaker, going to the range and the dryer outlet.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by rcramer

I do believe this is a 60 amp service right?

Not enough information has been given yet to make that determination. From what I can see visually, the likelihood that it is either a 60 or 100 amp service is about equal. The pipe from the tap can to the meter base seems a bit big for 60 and about right for 100, but it's really hard to say at this point. What was the rating on the main breaker? What gauge were the service entrance conductors.

Originally Posted by rcramer

I al [sic] would like to know if a double tap is acceptable on this pannel [sic]. ...The double tap is on a 60 amp breaker, going to the range and the dryer outlet.

No way, for several reasons.

[rcramer]

The main Breaker was 100 amp and the service entrance conductors were a 4. Here is a pic of the overhead, it was high up on the pole to tell exactily what gusge the OH conductors are.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I agree with Marc.....you stated you believe it is a 60A panel but the main OCPD was rated at 100A, so you stated the wire is a #4 AWG...so is that CU or AL...because based on 310.15(b)(6) # 4 CU would be fine for a 100A panel....so if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it's a duck. FYI....did the panel have a rating label in it by chance for an additional confirmation?

On the double tap issue.....other than the breaker not being rated for such...the largest concern is they have different size conductors that are terminating under the same termination.....when different size conductors terminate like this there is no possible way the smaller conductor will have a proper connection which can lead to a loose connection and issues when load is present on the conductor.....among other things.

PS. The size of the overhead from the pole to the connection point means nothing really as they have allowances for free-air and so on, and again the POCO beats to their own drum...always look at the point past the drip loop and into the mast head to aid in wire sizes and make sure it matches the size in the enclosure....

[Marc D. Shunk]

I'm guessing (or rather, hoping) that the 4 gauge observed was copper. The PushMatic panels of that vintage were not rated for AL conductors in the lugs. In fact, most of the very early one's had solid copper lugs.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Thats a great point Marc......many will find that it was not until the 60's and 70's that AL terminations and busses started to become the flavor.....most older equipment was CU only rated.......great points...

[rcramer]

Yes it was copper. Thanks guys. I just thought all round meter bases were rated at 60 amps.....learn someting new every day, I apperciate the fast response. ANy other concerns with the pushmatic pannel?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Watch my video...http://www.theelectricalguru.com/video.html on sizing a service......the meter can itself is always the poorest choice to use in doing an analysis.....remember while most round are 30-60 A....it is not uncommon to find them 100A as well.....but very hard to determine that so use it is as guideline to confirm the things you CAN determine and if if not needed throw it out in the final conclussion.

As for Pushies......well they are old and I don't like any OCPD over 25-30 years old but thats me.....they are costly to replace and many have reported the breakers stick with age probably due to heat and expansion and dust but for the most part the OCPD feature seems solid.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by rcramer

. ANy other concerns with the pushmatic pannel?

Nothing specific to the brand, other than the fact that it is obsolete and the breakers are expensive. Your example is an older one in the range. I'd guess mid 60's, perhaps. They were a fantastic breaker in their day, but some people have a hard time pushing them 'on' and 'off'. It does take some force, which some older people can't muster.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Watch my video...http://www.theelectricalguru.com/video.html on sizing a service......the meter can itself is always the poorest choice to use in doing an analysis.....remember while most round are 30-60 A....it is not uncommon to find them 100A as well.....but very hard to determine that so use it is as guideline to confirm the things you CAN determine and if if not needed throw it out in the final conclussion.

Right. If, for instance, you encountered a round meter can, about the only thing you can say for sure at that point is that it isn't a 200 amp (or bigger) service. You can still buy a round 100 amp meter can to this very day. It is not on the approved list of meter cans for most power companies, due to it's tight wiring space and the fact that it requires a meter retaining ring.

http://www.meter-devices.com/graphics/100_amp.pdf

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Here is the meter marc is refering too ( hope you dont mind marc I blew it up for them to see )

[rcramer]

Thanks Marc & Paul,

You guys are great electrical guru's....I apperciate the help.

[klott]

That looks like a new meter can in the first photo.