90 amp breaker

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by Jim Port

I think that change might be rescinded in the 2014 code. If it were it would not add any substantiation to why it changed in the first place.

They seem to go back and forth on some issues ... like the previous changes related to service wire ampacities ...

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by roconnor

They seem to go back and forth on some issues ... like the previous changes related to service wire ampacities ...

Yes like the most recent code cycle (2011) where they changed the ampacities of #14 and #12 conductors to match the Canadian electrical code. Since when do we care about the Canadian electrical code? Sorry all of our Canuck friends.

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

Yes like the most recent code cycle (2011) where they changed the ampacities of #14 and #12 conductors to match the Canadian electrical code. Since when do we care about the Canadian electrical code? Sorry all of our Canuck friends.

I understand it is a good code so why not use the best there is... Roy

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by rcooke

I understand it is a good code so why not use the best there is... Roy

Easy there. If ya rile up enough people here we might just have to invade "Canadian Bacon" style ... http://www.invadecanada.us/

[Roy D. Cooke, Sr]

Originally Posted by roconnor

Easy there. If ya rile up enough people here we might just have to invade "Canadian Bacon" style ... http://www.invadecanada.us/

Our Best friends where here from Florida for ten days .
They love shopping in Canada She loads up with spices and special tea from our Bulk food store .
She spent about $800;00 on things she can not get in USA .
She gets it for many others .
This should last till December when we will take her down some things she needs .
We have been doing this for over 30 years .
Gosh it would be great if she still lived in NJ .
Strange how that bacon is so popular here and not there.
Thanks for the memories.. .. Roy

[KEVIN WOOD]

Have you ever watched Rick Mercer Report?
This will give you an idea why we have a problem.
In some areas US is way ahead of us and in others it is behind.
I agree with the most stringent applications.
Nice to see color in you money now. LOL

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by rcooke

Strange how that bacon is so popular here and not there.

Yea, that is strange ... ... But all kidding aside my favorite place to visit was Montreal ...

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

... like the most recent code cycle (2011) where they changed the ampacities of #14 and #12 conductors to match the Canadian electrical code.

Was that the reason they gave?

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by roconnor

Yea, that is strange ... ... But all kidding aside my favorite place to visit was Montreal ...


Was that the reason they gave?

It seems that the original ampacity table 310.16 was originally derived from the CEC. So they lowered the ampacities of a few condcutors to be in harmony with the CEC. IMO this is a worthless change because the substantiation has no real safety value. The old ampacities were fine the way that they were. Here's part of the ROP:

Substantiation: Acceptance of this proposal will harmonize the ampacity
values between NEC Table 310.16 and CEC Tables 2 and 4 with technically
substantiated values.
The ampacities for both copper and aluminum conductors with a conductor
temperature rating of 75ºC are identical between the NEC and CEC.
The ampacities for conductors with temperature ratings of 60ºC and 90ºC
were calculated from the 75ºC values using the equation shown on the pages
provided as supporting material that also contain supporting tables. The
equation is defined in the following standards:
IEEE Std 835-1994, IEEE Standard Power Cable Ampacity Tables,
Section 3.4.2 Adjustment for change in maximum conductor temperature or
temperature due to dielectric loss.
AIEE-IPCEA Power Cable Ampacities, 1962 (AIEE Pub. No. S-135-1 /
IPCEA Pub. No. P-46-426) Volume 1 – Copper Conductors, Adjustment for
Change in Parameters, page III.
60ºC copper conductor temperature – There are only two differences (5 amps)
in ampacities between the NEC and the CEC and the CEC matches the rounded
calculated values on these two conductor sizes. There are three values where
the NEC and CEC agree but all three differ from the rounded calculated values
by 5 amps. A proposal is also being submitted to correct the CEC on the five
minor deviations.
90ºC copper conductor temperature – There are only two differences (5 amps)
in ampacities between the NEC and the rounded calculated ampacities. The
CEC is lower on all values and a proposal is being submitted to correct the
CEC to agree with the rounded calculated values and the revised NEC. The
CEC agrees with the values in the 1978 NEC.
60ºC aluminum conductor temperature – There are three differences (5 amps)
in ampacities between the rounded calculated ampacities, and the NEC and the
CEC have the same values for these three sizes (8 & 4/0 AWG and 700 kcmil).
On 12 AWG, the NEC is 5 amps higher (20 vs 15 amps) than the rounded

[Robert J. OConnor]

Sounds like the values are a little different from rounding off equations, and changes to both the NEC and CEC are being made so they are consistent. May not be such a bad thing.