AFCI Breaker info...Question

[David Nasser]

Should we be recommending to our Clients to Upgrade their Bedroom circuit breakers to AFCI's if their house was built before the code was
required?

David

[Michael R. Boyett]

How do you report GFCI's? Why would you not handle AFCI's the same way? Why just bedroom circuits?

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by dnasser

Should we be recommending to our Clients to Upgrade their Bedroom circuit breakers to AFCI's if their house was built before the code was
required?

David

Yes
Same answer for any health or safety upgrade.

If they ever upgrade their Electrical system Circuit Interrupters should be installed according to present code.

I also recommend GFCI for all outlets at wet locations so why would I not recommend AFCI protection.

It is present code because it is better for your safety.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by dnasser

Should we be recommending to our Clients to Upgrade their Bedroom circuit breakers to AFCI's if their house was built before the code was
required?

David

Knowing what the code says gives you an idea of where to start, David, but you are not limited by them.

Remember that a building code, when adopted, is nothing more than the most minimum and basic level of acceptability to the degree that anything less is illegal. A building code does not indicate that something is "safe" or that something is of any degree of quality.

AHJs are limited and can only observe and address these minimum basic standards. Home inspectors, however, are not looking at the least amount of quality or materials to get by....but what is good and right, and what is not.

Never ever discuss your findings in terms of "code" or you will be made to look like an idiot by contractors and AHJs who freely misinterpret them for a living. Allow them to reign over their mediocrity while you address material defects and the means of improving the quality and safety of the home and its systems.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Interesting. How many of you recommend installing fire-suppression systems in the residence as a "safety upgrade?"

[Michael R. Boyett]

Not me...but my state SOP does require me to report lack of GFCI's & AFCI's.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jpope

Interesting. How many of you recommend installing fire-suppression systems in the residence as a "safety upgrade?"

I have started to recommend the home be torn down and rebuilt with all fire proof materials.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jpope

Interesting. How many of you recommend installing fire-suppression systems in the residence as a "safety upgrade?"

Great question.

For those who insist that aluminum wiring and two-prong electrical systems (all acceptable under the NEC) should be written up as "defects" in an inspection report...how do you justify NOT writing up the actual 2006 IRC requirement for fire-suppression systems in two or less family dwellings?

This should be fun.

[Michael Larson]

By not adopting the 2009 amendments, Minnesota will not be requiring home sprinklers for at least five years, if ever.

[Michael Larson]

Effective Date:

The IRC provision calls for an effective date of no sooner than January 1, 2011. If the
state adopts the IRC by January 1 the provision will apply. If adoption occurs after
January 1, 2011 then only those homes built after adoption will be required to comply.
There is no retroactive provision in the code.

[Michael R. Boyett]

At the last legislative session, at the behest of the builder's lobby, Texas passed a law prohibiting the requirement of residential sprinklers. They can be offered but not required here:

(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of state law, after January 1, 2009, a municipality may not enact an ordinance, bylaw, order, building code, or rule requiring the installation of a multipurpose residential fire protection sprinkler system or any other fire sprinkler protection system in a new or existing one- or two-family dwelling. A municipality may adopt an ordinance, bylaw, order, or rule allowing a multipurpose residential fire protection sprinkler specialist or other contractor to offer, for a fee, the installation of a fire sprinkler protection system in a new one- or two-family dwelling.

Jim's question is a fair one but maybe another example of 'defect' would work better.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Not me...but my state SOP does require me to report lack of GFCI's & AFCI's.

Reporting on their absence is a different story altogether. Some people report the "absence" of and air-conditioning system.

I'm looking to get a feel for the "logic" behind recommending such an "upgrade." I've pondered this question for some time now and, with the help of my legal counsel, have learned where I should "draw the line."

[Michael R. Boyett]

How is it a different story? The question is "Should we be recommending to our Clients to Upgrade their Bedroom circuit breakers to AFCI's if their house was built before the code was required?"

It doesn't seem wise for me to simply state "AFCI not present". I do expand upon the subject some to explain what an AFCI is and why I recommend considering them if they are not present. I think it all goes back to the age-old question of whether or not to report pretty much anything that is missing or deficient in the home doesn't it? Another similar example would be 8" gaps at stair balusters, would you mention that? I do agree that we all have to draw the line somewhere but that line will vary from state to state and inspector to inspector.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by mboyett

I think it all goes back to the age-old question of whether or not to report pretty much anything that is missing or deficient in the home doesn't it?

Which (without drawing a line somewhere) would essentially be suggesting that the home be "brought up to current code standards."

Originally Posted by mboyett

Another similar example would be 8" gaps at stair balusters, would you mention that?

This falls more in line with where I will suggest "upgrades."

I'd like to hear from more inspectors before I tell you where I draw my line. . .

[Mark Thorman]

There is no doubt that the AFCI will save lives and prevent $$$$$ in fire damage. The reason to recommend upgrades is that an older home will be significantly safer with the upgrade at a reasonable price.

My list of recommended upgrades are: smoke detectors, railings, railing balusters, GFCI's, sensors at garage door openers and hurricane ties. I will be adding AFCIs in the near future.

www.MauiHomeInspectors.com