AFCI requirements

[kweiss]

The new Texas SoP changes the required reporting regarding AFCI's. The document specifies reporting:

(17) the lack of arc-fault circuit interrupting devices serving family rooms, dining rooms, living
rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms, closets, hallways, or similar

rooms or areas;

Yet we are not required to operate these AFCI if the property is occupied, nor are we required to verify proper labeling.

My main question with this is regarding this placement of AFCIs. I do many new houses around here and have NEVER seen AFCIs located on circuits other than bedrooms and smokes. If I read this requirement correctly it is basically calling for AFCI on ALL outlet and switch circuits? I have never seen that. Which suggests that state and local building codes, even for brand new construction right now, do not require this and are not enforcing this.

So what is the point in having to put this as deficient on EVERY report from an inspector? What purpose will this serve other than confusing and scaring clients?

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by kweiss

The new Texas SoP changes the required reporting regarding AFCI's. The document specifies reporting:

(17) the lack of arc-fault circuit interrupting devices serving family rooms, dining rooms, living
rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreations rooms, closets, hallways, or similar

rooms or areas;

Yet we are not required to operate these AFCI if the property is occupied, nor are we required to verify proper labeling.

My main question with this is regarding this placement of AFCIs. I do many new houses around here and have NEVER seen AFCIs located on circuits other than bedrooms and smokes. If I read this requirement correctly it is basically calling for AFCI on ALL outlet and switch circuits? I have never seen that. Which suggests that state and local building codes, even for brand new construction right now, do not require this and are not enforcing this.

So what is the point in having to put this as deficient on EVERY report from an inspector? What purpose will this serve other than confusing and scaring clients?

I'm surprised that a smoke dectector would be placed on a circuit that could be tripped by a unit detecting small problems or having nusiance trips (if any).

[Michael R. Boyett]

The 2008 NEC requires AFCI's on all of those circuits. Since there are no grandfaterhing provisions then we are required to identify those non-AFCI circuits as "Deficient" now. You are correct in that our state has not adopted that code as yet and may not for quite some time. This, along with numerous other issues, has been pointed out and discussed all this year regarding the new SOP.

[kweiss]

Guess that will be one of the things that the SoP" for profit "training" course will explainn how to present? What a crock. Being required to muddle the report with something like that. I have always thought of myself as "helping" my clients to better understand the real issues with the house. Things like this do not help.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

I'm surprised that a smoke dectector would be placed on a circuit that could be tripped by a unit detecting small problems or having nusiance trips (if any).

Since the smoke is considered an outlet of the room, they wanted it to be protected. However, 2008 NEC states that if the smoke detector is on it's own dedicated circuit and is piped in a metal raceway, there is no need for AFCI protection.

Jeff

[Emmanuel J. Scanlan]

Originally Posted by kweiss

Guess that will be one of the things that the SoP" for profit "training" course will explainn how to present? What a crock. Being required to muddle the report with something like that. I have always thought of myself as "helping" my clients to better understand the real issues with the house. Things like this do not help.

Kevin And All Other Texas Inspectors,

As Mike has said above, this is one of the many items discussed during the new SOP creation process. The SOP has many vague and poorly worded requirements and requires extensive clarifications. It is now up to all Texas Inspectors, at least those that are concerned about the welfare of the clients, to send in their "Request For Clarification" to the TREC legal counsel for any item that is unclear, vague or poorly written. Only your efforts can make a difference now!!

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Since the smoke is considered an outlet of the room, they wanted it to be protected. However, 2008 NEC states that if the smoke detector is on it's own dedicated circuit and is piped in a metal raceway, there is no need for AFCI protection.

Jeff

Jeff,

Could you please supply that Code article? I do not remember that from the Code update I took.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

Jim,

Sure.. 210.12(B) exception #2. I don't have it readily available to cut and paste. If I do find it later online, I'll do it.

Jeff

[Barry Adair]

Any of you have a problem with this statement?

Safety enhancement upgrade: TREC requires me to report the absence of Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI): These are now required, depending on local adoption of these new standards at all 120-volt, single phase, 15-20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in a dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, hallways, recreation rooms, closets, similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc fault interrupter combination-type, installed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.
General AFCI info http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/afcifac8.pdf2008
AFCI info and locations http://www.afcisafety.org/codes.html#NEC2008
Further information in regard to this would have to come from TREC admin@trec.state.tx.us

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by badair

Any of you have a problem with this statement?

Why would you indicate 'TREC requires' you to do that for AFCI's if you don't have that same narrative for GFCI's?

My AFCI narrative will likely read (but open to suggestions):

One or more circuits are not protected by an Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). AFCIs are newly-developed electrical devices designed to protect against fires caused by arcing faults in the homes wiring. Arcing faults can be created by damaged, deteriorated, or worn electrical plugs, cords, and/or branch circuit conductors. AFCIs are required in new construction per current building standards which have been adopted in some jurisdictions across the country. Older homes with aging and deteriorating wiring systems can especially benefit from the added protection of AFCIs. I recommend the client consider having a qualified electrician evaluate and upgrade branch circuits to AFCI protection per current building standards.

[kweiss]

I like it Barry, mind if I use it as a guide to make my own? I guess that will be the plan for some of the more murky requirements? Note it, pass it off to the TREC or a professional and move on - on EVERY inspection??? We can certainly do this and not

As to my original question, here is my confusion. I get that there are going to be murky, for lack of a better word, parts of any SoP for something like home inspection. In my gut, I tend to believe that a good minimum standard is better than no standard. And that nothing is perfect. Also understand that there are probably political and personal agendas at work behind the scene.

But what possible benefit is gained or purpose supported by requiring something like this? Effectively EVERY home we inspect will be found deficient in the panel because of this. How is it beneficial to the client? How is it beneficial to anyone? It isn't required by local or state codes. No one is going to "repair" it. If anything it just dilutes the report and makes inspectors look ridiculous. The more irrelevent things that are in the report, the less valid it is in my opinion. Last I knew they had not figured out how to handle the excessive heat problems of the AFCI breakers as crrently installed, what will they do with a panel full of them? Is this actual in practical use ANYWHERE in residential construction? What if someone actually has all the breakers replaced and something goes wrong fromt he heat - I have had clients that might do this, if it was in the report they want it done. Would we be liable? Are they trying to influence building codes by making us put this out there?

I know these things were brought up in the questioning period. Did they actually give any answers?

[John Onofrey]

Barry and Mike,

I liked both of your statements and have morphed them into this:

One or more circuits are not protected by an Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). TREC requires Inspectors to report the absence of Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI): These are now required, depending on local adoption of these new standards, at all 120-volt, single phase, 15-20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in a dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sun rooms, hallways, recreation rooms, closets, and similar rooms or areas.

AFCIs are newly-developed electrical devices designed to protect against fires caused by arcing faults in the homes wiring. Arcing faults can be created by damaged, deteriorated, or worn electrical plugs, cords, and/or branch circuit conductors. AFCIs are required in new construction per current building standards which have been adopted in some jurisdictions across the country. Older homes with aging and deteriorating wiring systems can especially benefit from the added protection of AFCIs. I recommend the client consider having a qualified licensed electrician evaluate and upgrade branch circuits to AFCI protection per current building standards.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Well, there ya go...I like it Mr. Wordsmith