all basement lighting fed by GFI

[Thomas Jansson]

So... Here's what I saw today.

Basement bedroom outlets all GFI protected at the panel. Test the GFI, and all the basement lights go off.

Lights out in case of an electrical event is a hazard. Duh.

I'm going to recommend AFI breakers for the outlets (basement is finished and carpeted) and a separate run on a standard breaker for the lighting.

Would you write it as a defect or a recommendation? And what would your reasoning be in either case?

[Sean Fogarty]

One would think that gfci's are required only in areas needed. It all the lights go out because of the application, then that in itself like you said, would be a safety hazard, and not necessarily a defect. I believe you answered you own question.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Why is this a defect?

I could put all my lighting in a dwelling on GFCI if i so choose. Their are many things that are UNSAFE in a dwelling but again you can't fix stupid...so with that said if you put that on a report I got I would give you a hard time because again nothing in the codes prohibit this.

Understand that GFCI's today simply do not trip for no reason. if the lighting outlets in a bedroom are on AFCI ( which has class B type GFI built in already, not class A for personal protection but important to mention ) happen to trip off...dont you have the same condition you speak of? GFCI's today are so robust ( I like using that word ) that we see the evidence of this with the changes to the NEC in the 2008 edition, I would have no problem at all with the illuminaton on GFCI.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Why is this a defect?

I could put all my lighting in a dwelling on GFCI if i so choose. Their are many things that are UNSAFE in a dwelling but again you can't fix stupid...so with that said if you put that on a report I got I would give you a hard time because again nothing in the codes prohibit this.

Understand that GFCI's today simply do not trip for no reason. if the lighting outlets in a bedroom are on AFCI ( which has class B type GFI built in already, not class A for personal protection but important to mention ) happen to trip off...dont you have the same condition you speak of? GFCI's today are so robust ( I like using that word ) that we see the evidence of this with the changes to the NEC in the 2008 edition, I would have no problem at all with the illuminaton on GFCI.

Thanks, Paul, always nice to have facts...

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Always here to help....just lurking more these days than actually posting...you guys have gotten GOOD...you dont need me anymore..Keep up the good work !

[Bob Elliott]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Always here to help....just lurking more these days than actually posting...you guys have gotten GOOD...you dont need me anymore..Keep up the good work !

Lurking....
That sounds creepy.haha

I gotta get into that show of yours.

[Thomas Jansson]

Thanks, Paul

[Bill Smith]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Why is this a defect?

I could put all my lighting in a dwelling on GFCI if i so choose. Their are many things that are UNSAFE in a dwelling but again you can't fix stupid...so with that said if you put that on a report I got I would give you a hard time because again nothing in the codes prohibit this.

Understand that GFCI's today simply do not trip for no reason. if the lighting outlets in a bedroom are on AFCI ( which has class B type GFI built in already, not class A for personal protection but important to mention ) happen to trip off...dont you have the same condition you speak of? GFCI's today are so robust ( I like using that word ) that we see the evidence of this with the changes to the NEC in the 2008 edition, I would have no problem at all with the illuminaton on GFCI.

Hey Paul - good to see you around again. On a related note: I always thought that GFCI outlets should be on dedicated circuits that are independent of lights. When I come across a bathroom GFCI outlet that shuts off the lights when tripped I write it up. Am I wrong?

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by bsmith

Hey Paul - good to see you around again. On a related note: I always thought that GFCI outlets should be on dedicated circuits that are independent of lights. When I come across a bathroom GFCI outlet that shuts off the lights when tripped I write it up. Am I wrong?

Not Paul, but, there is no prohibition against having GFI protected lighting. However, if the circuit serves receptacles in multiple bathrooms there should be no lighting on that circuit. If that circuit only serves one bathroom, lighting and fans can share that circuit.

All of the above applies to more recent code editions. Older editions were not as restrictive and a 20 amp circuit was not required until 87 or 90 IIRC.

[Thomas Jansson]

So would you call it a defect? One panel GFI serves outlets and lighting in three different rooms.

[Jim Port]

Are you asking if having the circuit wired the way it is is a defect or that the lights are GFI protected is a defect?

If you are asking about the lights on the GFI PA explained rather well in a post above that this is no more of a safety concern than other things that could happen.

What probably happened was that someone extended the existing GFI circuit for the new wiring.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol...Jim call me PA....Nice !

[David A. Andersen]

Paul, I accidentally dialed your number today. Didn't mean to. Thanks for the call-back anyway.

I am seeing this in new construction here.

Everything is put on GFCI by Code.

I still report it because some folks use their automatic door opener as a key to the house and get locked out. Also, not all GFCI's have lights on them when tripped and you can't find them in the dark (and can't get out of the garage to boot)!

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by tjansson

Lights out in case of an electrical event is a hazard. Duh.

What hazard protection does the homeowner have in the event the lights go off on the 1st floor at midnight?

[Thomas Jansson]

This is why I asked again... you wrote

Originally Posted by Jim Port

... if the circuit serves receptacles in multiple bathrooms there should be no lighting on that circuit. If that circuit only serves one bathroom, lighting and fans can share that circuit.

All of the above applies to more recent code editions. Older editions were not as restrictive and a 20 amp circuit was not required until 87 or 90 IIRC.

I'm just trying to get other people's opinions here, and their reasons for holding their opinions. I have no particular axe to grind either way...

I've always thought it was odd, to have a light on a gfi, and my question was, "do other people think this is a defect?"

The code interpretation you provided above makes me think that maybe some people might think that it is. In my mind, Paul had settled it for me. Not a defect. But then I got to thinking about your commentary on the IRC. Which is above my pay grade. For me, it re-opened the question. And again, I don't know.

At the end of the day, I wrote a recommendation for a separate lighting circuit, but called it an "upgrade" not a "repair" and stayed well away from using the "c" word.