Aluminum Wiring

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by rray

If that had been true, seems like the licensed contractors should have their licenses revoked.

Or the inspectors...

[Russel Ray]

The inspectors here, since they are not licensed at anything, would be well within their area of expertise, of which they have none, by recommending further evaluation by licensed professionals practicing within their area of expertise. But for gosh sake, don't recommend further evaluation of aluminum wiring by the plumber--no telling what he might do after he pulls his pants up.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

RRAY....Plumber Hater....lol

[Russel Ray]

Not me.
Ms Margarita.

[Greg Fretwell]

I have heard complaints about the number of recomedations for professional evaluation the typical HI report contains. They ask that if they need a roofer, electrician, plumber and HVAC tech, why did they need an HI?

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by rray

The inspectors here, since they are not licensed at anything, would be well within their area of expertise, of which they have none, by recommending further evaluation by licensed professionals practicing within their area of expertise. But for gosh sake, don't recommend further evaluation of aluminum wiring by the plumber--no telling what he might do after he pulls his pants up.

It seems pretty absurd to me an inspector cannot determine the difference between Aluminum, Copper or Tin/Copper, etc. without recommending a electrician look at it.

He shouldn't be inspecting anything remotely associated with electricity.

In the posters response a electrician said there was no Aluminum wiring, I doubt that inspector will be getting any referrals from the home buyer.

Maybe a bill for the electrician.....

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

I have heard complaints about the number of recomedations for professional evaluation the typical HI report contains. They ask that if they need a roofer, electrician, plumber and HVAC tech, why did they need an HI?

That's an easy one, one that I picked up on before I ever opened my doors for business. I picked it up from both the CREIA and ASHI members only web sites.

The best analogy is the ol' doctor one that many home inspectors use:

If you feel bad, you go to your general practitioner.
He looks you over, does some tests, takes your blood pressure, takes a urine sample for evaluation, etc.
He believes you have a heart problem.
He, not being licensed as a heart specialist (but having general knowledge in the area), recommends further evaluation by a heart specialist, and he can even make the appointment for you right there in his office.
The heart specialist, not willing to rely on the general practitioner's diagnosis since they have different malpractice insurance, does his own evaluations and decides you need heart surgery. Since he's just a heart specialist, not a heart surgeon, he sends you to the best heart surgeon in town because he cares about you.

The buyer hires a home inspector, the general practitioner.
The home inspector looks over things, does some tests, takes the water pressure, etc.
The home inspector believes there is a plumbing problem.
The home inspector, not being licensed as a plumber (but having general knowledge in the area), recommends further evaluation by a licensed plumber. However, the home inspector cannot make the appointment for you unless you have paid for his PREMIUM inspection. If you paid for his TECH inspection, then he brought a licensed plumber along as part of the home inspection team.
The licensed plumber, not willing to rely on the general knowledge of a general, unlicensed practitioner--the home inspector--does his own evaluations and decides the house needs to have all the cast iron replaced by ABS plastic. He'll even make an appointment with his brother, who specializes in replacing old cast iron drainage systems with new ABS plastic.

Works the same way in both cases.

If nothing is wrong, you (or your insurance company) pay the general practitioner $299.
If something is wrong, you (or your insurance company) pay the heart specialist $599.
If surgery is required, you (or your insurance company) pay the surgeon $1,599.

If nothing is wrong with the house, the buyer pays the home inspector $299.
If something is wrong with the plumbing, the buyer or seller pays the plumber $599.
If complete replacement is required, the buyer or seller pays the plumbing contractor $1,599.

Works the same in both cases. We're simply the first line of defense, not the final by any stretch of the imagination, which is why further evaluation by those final lines of defense sometimes is required.

It would be a foolhardy licensed professional who relies on the report of an unlicensed, general home inspector without doing his own testing, evaluation, and inspecting.

ART tells me that I've only had to use the analogy twice in five years, yet I always recommend further evaluation, as necessary, by the appropriate professionals who are licensed in their industries here in the state of California.

My attorneys and E&O insurance provider love me, and I don't seem to be doing too bad with Realtors and Client referrals either.

[Dale Duffy]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

I have heard complaints about the number of recomedations for professional evaluation the typical HI report contains. They ask that if they need a roofer, electrician, plumber and HVAC tech, why did they need an HI?

I agree Greg.

Looking at the pile of inspection reports I have for homes flipped, the inspectors are only in business temporarily believe me....

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by dduffy

I agree Greg.

Looking at the pile of inspection reports I have for homes flipped, the inspectors are only in business temporarily believe me....

And yet I, who have flipped many, many homes, and have been on the other side of a flipped home, and have been in business for five years with multiple inspectors and dozens of inspections a week, and have been using "recommend further evaluation by licensed professional" since Day One, am still in business. I guess five years is only "temporarily"?

Different areas have different requirements. To be sure that one is doing what is right for one's area, one probably should consult with one's attorneys and E&O insurance provider.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by dduffy

It seems pretty absurd to me an inspector cannot determine the difference between Aluminum, Copper or Tin/Copper, etc. without recommending a electrician look at it.

He shouldn't be inspecting anything remotely associated with electricity.

In the posters response a electrician said there was no Aluminum wiring, I doubt that inspector will be getting any referrals from the home buyer.

Maybe a bill for the electrician.....

It seems to me that one would want to read the entire report and, perhaps, look at the pictures in order to determine why the inspector said what he did. I occasionally see aluminum-colored wires, but the panel is so crammed full of extra wire, spider webs, roaches, etc., that there's no possible way within my unlicensed profession that I could make the determination. I, of course, recommend further evaluation by a licensed electrician in conjunction with all the other electrical problems I found. They can also have me come back out to look at the wiring once the panel has been cleaned, but my re-inspections are more expensive than the electrician's service charge, and since he is licensed, and I am not, they usually go with the licensed professional. Quite understandable in my opinion.

[Dale Duffy]

Russel,

I have never had a predicament where I could not tell the difference.

[Russel Ray]

So am I:

Originally Posted by rray

It seems to me that one would want to read the entire report and, perhaps, look at the pictures in order to determine why the inspector said what he did. I occasionally see aluminum-colored wires, but the panel is so crammed full of extra wire, spider webs, roaches, etc., that there's no possible way within my unlicensed profession that I could make the determination. I, of course, recommend further evaluation by a licensed electrician in conjunction with all the other electrical problems I found. They can also have me come back out to look at the wiring once the panel has been cleaned, but my re-inspections are more expensive than the electrician's service charge, and since he is licensed, and I am not, they usually go with the licensed professional. Quite understandable in my opinion.

[brepanshek]

Branch circuit wiring was identified as of alum. type, recommend qualified, licensed electrician to evaluate entire electriacl system for safe operations.

Does this sound good on a report?????? help me with the wording , thanks

[Russel Ray]

I would simply use "licensed electrician" though. "Qualified, licensed electrician" sounds like there might be some "unqualified, licensed electricians" running around or that there might be some "qualified, unlicensed electricians" in the neighborhood.

[Dale Duffy]

Aluminum wiring, used in some homes from the mid 1960's to the early 1970's, is a potential fire hazard. According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, fires and even deaths have been reported to have been caused by this hazard. Problems due to expansion, or more likely micro-fretting and arcing at the connectors, can cause overheating at connections between the wire and devices (switches and outlets) or at splices. The connections can become hot enough to start a fire without ever tripping a circuit breaker!CPSC research shows that "homes wired with aluminum wire manufactured before 1972 are 55 times more likely to have one or more connections reach "Fire Hazard Conditions" than are homes wired with copper.

"Post 1972" aluminum wire is also a concern. Introduction of the aluminum wire "alloys" in 1972 time frame did not solve most of the connection failure problems. Aluminum wiring is still permitted and used for certain applications, including residential service entrance wiring and single-purpose higher amperage circuits such as 240V air conditioning or electric range circuits.

The fire risk from single purpose circuits is much less than for branch circuits. But it's not necessarily because of a "new alloy" as some folks assert. It's because there are enormously fewer connections (four or six rather than 30 or 40 per circuit) and thus statistically a smaller chance of a connection failure. These connections do still burn up, as indicated by field reports, therefore I recommend a licensed electrician inspect the system in your home and repair or replace if necessary.