Another bonding of service panel question?

[Mark Thiltgen]

I also have a bonding question. I know you will look at pictures and say there are a number of things going on here ( Federal Pacific being one of them ). I could not find a bonding screw or strap from bus bar to panel. You can't see it in picture but the grounding wire is clamped to the overhead SEC pipe coming into panel. I did find some info that says attaching ground to SEC pipe is bonding the panel. There is no ground rod outside by the meter, only attachments are to the right of service panel and then ten feet away on other side of water meter. When I don't see bonding in the panel I get nervous. thanks, Mark T

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Where's the service disconnect? This looks like a sub-panel.

[Mark Thiltgen]

Hi Jeff, top of panel is switch. SEC enters through conduit upper right of panel which goes out to meter.

[Robert Meier]

The neutral is require to be bonded. Since this is a FPE panel-board it's likely that it was installed before the water pipe electrode required supplemental electrode. That's why there's no ground rod. Looks like a 200 amp service judging from the "200" on the handle in the first photo.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Ah, now I see it.

The grounding bus appears to be attached directly to the cabinet and the service-neutral lug. If this is true, that's all that is needed for proper bonding.

I don't understand this statement. . .

I did find some info that says attaching ground to SEC pipe is bonding the panel.

This cannot count as a system ground, nor is it a proper method for bonding the conduit. The water pipe connection is likely the only grounding electrode.

I'm sure you're aware that the panel is FPE?

[Mark Thiltgen]

Thanks Jeff, yes it's a FPE plus there are some other issues with it.

[Mark Thiltgen]

Jeff, what I found was a article and diagram saying that {panel grounded through metal conduit from service entrance} That's what this panel has, the grounding conductor goes from bus bar and is connected to the metal conduit coming in from the meter. The bus bar is not connected directly to panel. So going by the article and picture I would say the panel is bonded but not in the conventional way. This just gets more confusing as I type! Any way thanks for looking at it and answering, Mark

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

The conduit is used to "bond" the service panel to the meter base. It is not used for grounding. Attaching a conductor to the conduit is not a proper method for bonding conduit. The bond is created through the physical connection of the conduit at each panel.

[Mark Thiltgen]

That's it! I knew that we would get to the bottom of this eventually. thank ya, thank ya very much

[Robert Meier]

I'm re-posting this from the other service bonding thread where It had been incorrectly been posted:

There are several issues with the service raceway. For one, judging from the photo and depending on the jurisdiction, it may be too long to be inside of the dwelling. [230.70(A)(1)] The service raceway must be bonded on one end with something other than standard locknuts, since we can't see into the meter enclosure it may or may not be properly bonded. Even though there may be no bonding jumper within the panel from the neutral to the cabinet, the cabinet would be bonded by virtue of it's connection to the service raceway.