Arc Fault combo

[apolillo]

This is a question for someone above my paygrade. New construction mega homes. Arc fault protection on all outlets in bedrooms EXCEPT for the GFI protected outlets at the wet bar. It is definitely considered a bedroom outlet, but not arc fault protected.
I have not contacted the county yet, all the home in this development are wired like this. Any thoughts???

Anatol

[Marc D. Shunk]

In some open floor plan homes, it can be hard to tell when one "room" stops and another "room" starts. This is normally delineated during plan review. That said, this doesn't seem to be the case in your situation. You have a wet bar in a master bedroom, which is a reasonably common feature in the luxury home. If that wet bar is clearly IN the master bedroom, and not in some sort of pub room of its own, it certainly needs AFCI protection in addition to the GFCI protection that you say already exists.

[Greg Fretwell]

This also comes up when you have bathroom type setups in bedrooms. You AFCI the branch circuit and GFCI the sink counter receptacles on that circuit.

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

This also comes up when you have bathroom type setups in bedrooms. You AFCI the branch circuit and GFCI the sink counter receptacles on that circuit.

I was OK with the wet bar in MB but the vision from my bed of the girls from the night before doing their morning "duty" is a little much. I hope they have doors on these set-ups.

And once a door is introduced this would then be considered a separate room, we refer to them as bathrooms and NO AFCI required, yet, at least around here.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by badair

And once a door is introduced this would then be considered a separate room, we refer to them as bathrooms and NO AFCI required, yet, at least around here.

It is the same here.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by badair

I was OK with the wet bar in MB but the vision from my bed of the girls from the night before doing their morning "duty" is a little much. I hope they have doors on these set-ups.

And once a door is introduced this would then be considered a separate room, we refer to them as bathrooms and NO AFCI required, yet, at least around here.

What he's referring to is some of these master suites that have a vanity/makeup area in the actual bedroom that includes a sink. I can clearly picture a few that have had the whirlpool tub in either a raised or sunken area of the master suite. When such bathroomesque type fixtures are located in the master bedroom, the toilet is nearly always in a seperate "toilet room" by itself, or behind a half wall of sorts.

I agree that if the bathroom is in a seperate room that is accessed off the bedroom only, that it does not require AFCI protection. The notable exception is Washington State.

[Greg Fretwell]

The "bathroom" is really the "basin" with any other qualifying fixtures. If you had a tub and a sink you have a bathroom. The toilet is usually in a separate "water closet" in these big homes, even if it is in the giant bathroom, separate from the bedroom.
The question starts when you just have the makeup counter with a sink and no other "bathroom fixture". Since it is not really defined it will be up to the AHJ whether this is a "wet bar". I say any counter top with a sink is a wet bar

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

The question starts when you just have the makeup counter with a sink and no other "bathroom fixture". Since it is not really defined it will be up to the AHJ whether this is a "wet bar". I say any counter top with a sink is a wet bar

I guess, but making that determination is what causes you to GFCI protect or not. The thread is about AFCI protection. Any 120 volt stuff in the bedroom needs AFCI protection, without regard to how strange, weird, or obscure that stuff might be.

[Greg Fretwell]

In 2008 it is a distinction without a difference. The requirments still add

[apolillo]

I am waiting for an answer from AA county. I'll post the response.
Thanks for the discussion.

Anatol

[apolillo]

The official word from AA County is:


>>> Carmine Cianchetta 4/2/2007 8:00 AM >>>
All outlets in a bedroom are to be AFCI protected. This would include the GFCI protected outlets at or within 6' of a wetbar.

Anatol

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by apolillo

The official word from AA County is:


>>> Carmine Cianchetta 4/2/2007 8:00 AM >>>
All outlets in a bedroom are to be AFCI protected. This would include the GFCI protected outlets at or within 6' of a wetbar.

Anatol

I absolutely agree with that ruling from Anne Arundel County. .

[rshuey]

AA county is getting ready for 2008, thats what it will read in the NEC then, "all branch circuits feeding the outlets in bedrooms" remember, they say outlets, not receptacles...

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Actually....Russell if you are speaking of the 2008 NEC in regards to 210.12, the it will read this as it stands right now.

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI).

An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide
protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing
characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to deenergize
the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

[ROP
2–119]
(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits installed in dwelling units shall
be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination
type installed to provide protection of the branch
circuit. [ROP 2–105, 2–142, 2–111]

FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit
interrupters, see UL 1699-1999,

Standard for Arc-Fault
Circuit Interrupters.
FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72®-2007, National
Fire Alarm Code® for information related to secondary
power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in
dwelling units. [ROP 2–118a]

FPN No. 3: See 760.41 and 760.121 for power supply
requirements for fire alarm systems.

[ROP 2–143]

Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter

shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the
branch circuit where the arc-fault circuit interrupter is installed
within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent
device as measured along the branch circuit conductors.

[ROP 2–147, 2–137]