Bonding or Grounding (or both)

[Scott Schultz]

Usually you see the wires attached to the water pipe, the gas pipe and the hot water heater pipe. Can somebody please explain is this all bonding, or grounding or a mixture of both? thanks

[Speedy Petey]

There are whole books written about these subjects. It is not something easily jotted down.

Maybe someone wants to type several paragraphs on this topic?
I know Paul has some good info already written up.

Here is a goo thread:
http://www.electrical-ess.com/cgi-bi...m=20&thread=94

And here is more. This is part 1 of 12:
http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_groun...ing/index.html

[Brian E. Kelly]

Mixture of both.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

www.theelectricalguru.com/GandB.pps

Basic Grounding and Bonding Powerpoint....ENJOY

[Scott Schultz]

So the water heater, gas line and water lines have bonding wires attached to them. I always see the copper grounding wire in the main panel but rarely see it attached to a grounding rod...should I assume that if I don't see a rod that it's grounded by UFER?

[Speedy Petey]

Most older systems had only one grounding electrode. Be it a ground rod or water pipe ground.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Scott Schultz

SoI always see the copper grounding wire in the main panel but rarely see it attached to a grounding rod...should I assume that if I don't see a rod that it's grounded by UFER?

Those (3) words could come back to HAUNT you if you do a report and ASSUME anything.

As speedy stated....if it is an older house....and you see a connection to the water pipe as the GE.....and inside the panel you see NOTHING else in regards to GEC's.......then it only has a WP as the GE.

Nothing wrong with suggesting a " Supplimental " electrode be added like a ground rod.....well within your scope to suggest it.

Never assume a UFER or anything.....report it's presence or lack of presence.

[Joe Farsetta]

In new construction up this way, many times the sparky will throw the ground rod in the earth, adjacent to the footing, before anything gets backfilled.

Sometimes, I wonder what some electricians are thinking, though. Did a house yesterday with a well. Dont you know that one of the ground sources was the cold water pipe, right where it connects to the water storage tank. Problem was that the inbound side of the tank (from the pump) was plastic...

I've also seen the main grounding electrode as a metallic fence post (chain link fence), between two houses with a small alley between them. Problem was that the adjacent house used the same fence post for its ground point. These houses were built in the late 1940s. Yikes!

The point is... NEVER assume anything.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Sometimes, I wonder what some electricians are thinking, though. Did a house yesterday with a well. Dont you know that one of the ground sources was the cold water pipe, right where it connects to the water storage tank. Problem was that the inbound side of the tank (from the pump) was plastic...

This is NOT a ground "source". This is the required water bond. If the pipe going into the ground is metallic then it serves a dual purpose as the grounding electrode as well.
Forthe water bond there is no requirement that the connection be made within 5' of the entrance. This just must have been the easiest accessible place for it.

[Joe Farsetta]

I wonder why there is a need for a "water" bonding point, as water is a poor conductor of electricity.

[Speedy Petey]

Sorry. I'll clarify:
"Metal Water Piping" bond.

True, water is not a good condcutor.

[Scott Schultz]

Maybe I used the wrong word in assume. I never make guesses in my reports but usually, I will see the copper ground wire in the panel, then wire attached to the hose bib, the hot water heater pipe and the gas pipe. Today, I saw a grounding rod adjacent(touching) the main water pipe. Usually, that is not present but I don't want to say "grounding source not located) only to have someone call me up and say "duh, did you see the water pipe, the gas pipe and the hot water heater" Still a little fuzzy on this.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by Scott Schultz

Usually, that is not present but I don't want to say "grounding source not located) only to have someone call me up and say "duh, did you see the water pipe, the gas pipe and the hot water heater" Still a little fuzzy on this.

Thing is these are NOT ground sources.
ONLY a metallic water pipe connection, made WITHIN 5' of the pipe entering the house, is considered a grounding electrode.

Simply any water pipe, and especially a gas pipe, CANNOT be used as a "ground".
So if someone sees a water or gas bond and says "Duh, there is the ground", you say "Duh, no it's not."

[Scott Schultz]

Thank you speedy. Perfect explanation.