Challenger Panel- tie bar

[Shawn Rowe]

I came across a Challenger Panel today and it does not appear that the tie bar is there. It is black and looks like plastic and I cannot find anything on the panel label to clearly label this.

A similar question was asked the other day but the photos were a bit smaller.

Joe, Greg, Paul...any experience with Challengers?

Any website for them? I can only gather that that Westinghouse is/was the parent company.

[Pierre Belarge]

Shaun
It is very important to tell your client this issue needs immediate attention. The circuits where the equipment ground conductors are terminated to the right side of the panel will not be able to trip if there is a ground fault on those circuits.

It is amazing what you guys are finding out there, it makes my stomach cringe. I hope that panel was installed without an electrical inspection, as this should not have gone unnoticed.


Just so you will know, if any are interested.
The equipment ground conductor (bare, green or metallic raceways) are required to be connected to the neutral conductor at the service disconnect. The ground fault current will flow along the path from the ground fault back to the neutral conductor at the service disconnect and at the service disconnect it flows along the neutral conductor back to the transformer out at the street. From the transformer, it flows back to the circuit that the fault occurs on, and then the circuit breaker or fuse will open (trip).

Now you may understand how important in regards to shock hazard or fire initiation this situation may be.

BTW: this may have passed electrical inspection, if the panel cover was on during the inspection and the contractor was not there. Electrical inspectors are trained not to take the covers off of a live panel.

[jtedesco1]

Pierre:

Please expand on this statement?

"Electrical inspectors are trained not to take the covers off of a live panel."

[Shawn Rowe]

Are others in agreement that this is wrong (or looks wrong)?

Joe, no comment on the panel? What do you think?

Also note, there is no bonding screw.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by srowe

Are others in agreement that this is wrong (or looks wrong)?

Joe, no comment on the panel? What do you think?

Also note, there is no bonding screw.

Hi Shawn:

I think that the MBJ is to the left of the Neutral Lug on the left side, the MBJ was not always green in color, and I believe that the bar across does what is intended.

Give us the Model number so it can be researched further. Lots of links available on the web too.

[N5XL]

Shawn,

If you look at the first picture, (closeup of the neutral lug), there is what appears to be a combination flat / robertson head screw on the lug, that screw secures the neutral lug to the left hand bar. This is what allows the neutral to be electrically part of the neutral bar on the far left hand side of the panel.

If this screw(challenger guys need to chime in) also screws into the metal frame of the panel, it would be bonding that bar to the chassis, and electrically tyeing it into the grounding bar on the far right hand side of the panel. The question is, is this screw green in color or some other color. If its green, it is the bonding screw.

At the very bottom lefthand corner of your second picture....on the far left bar, where does that thick black wire that ties into the bussbar go? Does this go over to the right hand buss? This could be serving as your "bonding " wire.

Any chance of getting a bigger picture so we can see what is going on in the panel?

In thinking about this, if the main neutral cable were not electrically tied somehow into the right hand buss, there would be no power to any of the 120v branch circuits in this panel. (because in your second picture, all of the neutrals go to the right hand buss, but the main neutral that feeds this panel attaches to the left hand bus. Somewhere, the left hand neutral bar is electrically tied into the right hand neutral bar...either by the screw at the lug, or a wire that connects the two.

Dave

[cbuell]

Shawn,
I think you will find that that "black plastic bar" has a hidden metal bar inside it connecting the left neutral/ground bar to the right neutral/ground bar. They do this so that the bar is isolated from the panel so that the panel could be used as either a main panel or a sub-panel. I am pretty sure that screw at the far left in the left picture is the bonding screw (looks sort of green to me)

[Shawn Rowe]

Thanks for all the replies!

Here are some of the clips from the panel label.

[N5XL]

According to the diagram, the two neutral bars are tied together by a connection that is underneath the plastic piece you see....just like Charles pointed out earlier.

Dave