Do you find these adapters in use?

[jtedesco1]

If so, what would be some of your inspection procedures, comments, and or recommendations concerning these adapters?

[Barry Adair]

Advisement: The subject property has antiquated two-pronged receptacles present at numerous locations. Two-pronged receptacles presence in and of itself may not be a defect or a concern by current standards. The problem lies in how they are used and the unapproved or possible unsafe use of certain appliance plug adapters on items such as but not limited to refrigerators, washing machines, computers, etc. that require a ground as delivered from the manufacture. Remember that an electrical engineering specialist for a particular reason of safety has engineered the three-pronged grounded appliance wire, and any deviation from this engineering application may not be safe. Using an improperly installed grounding or non-grounding adapter to plug a three-pronged appliance wire into a two-pronged receptacle can present a safety condition that needs to be considered and confirmed or remedied by a qualified electrician. The use of modification adapters or surge protection devices may not properly protect the plugged in appliance or users of these devices.

[mnahrgang]

What Barry said...

Knowing that, I actually carry one of these in my comp. bag for those cases when I don't have a 3 prong outlet, and still want to work on the report on-site.

[Jae Williams]

TWO- and THREE-HOLE RECEPTACLES
The use of three-hole ground-type receptacles on a two-wire electrical system gives the impression that safety protection is present in the circuit, when in reality it is not. Older style two-hole receptacles are still available and should be installed to eliminate this false sense of security. Three-hole receptacles may be more convenient (and often less expensive), but are often installed without giving consideration to this situation.
The use of a three-pronged plug in an ungrounded receptacle can be a safety concern. The plug has the grounding provision for a reason and electrical appliances should always be used for the function they were intended to perform.
All such installations should be labeled “No Equipment Ground”on each receptacle that applies. Grounding of all “three-pronged” receptacles or protection with a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) on each is recommended for safety reasons, prior to the close of escrow or after taking possession of the property.
“Two-hole” outlets are not grounded and should never be used with a “three-pronged” plug. Adapters have been devised for this usage, but there is still no adequate ground and such adapters are not always safe. Until the electrical system is upgraded for “three-pronged” usage, it would be prudent to not use adapters, extension cords, or “three-pronged” plugs in any way. Consider that “three-pronged” plugs have been engineered for use with a “three-hole” grounded receptacle.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/524.html
__________________________________________________ ___________________________
Avoid the use of multipliers (multi-outlets in a plug-in box at a single receptacle), adapters, and extension cords. Electrical outlets should be used only for their prescribed function.

[jtedesco1]

OK, the adapter on the left is UL Listed, and the one on the right is a sure way to commit sucide.

Grounding-Pole Identification Grounding-type receptacles, adapters, cord connections, and attachment plugs shall have a means for connection of a grounding conductor to the grounding pole.

A terminal for connection to the grounding pole shall be designated by one of the following:

(1) A green-colored hexagonal-headed or -shaped terminal screw or nut, not readily removable.

(2) A green-colored pressure wire connector body (a wire barrel).

(3) A similar green-colored connection device, in the case of adapters. The grounding terminal of a grounding adapter shall be a green-colored rigid ear, lug, or similar device. The grounding connection shall be so designed that it cannot make contact with current-carrying parts of the receptacle, adapter, or attachment plug. The adapter shall be polarized.

[Richard L. Bennett]

Joe

Your are off in left field again

1. HI's do not care if something is UL listed
2. If it is pluged into an outlet we do not inspect or care
3. No statement as to how the adaptor was installed (socket screw not grounded)
4. The adaptor on the right is used by many to measure ground leakage current

_________________

Thus not a reportable issue

rlb

[relliott]

Joe is right
In Chicago if the one one the left is screwed in it is acceptable.

[Richard L. Bennett]

And if it is not attached to the outlet would you post it in your report??

Do you realy think that we should check UL listing of all thing pluged into a socket??

We can not check all thing that are pluged into an outlet

UL listing is not the ended to all issues -- what about home built items like a HVAC system or a SOLAR back feed system??

Joe is wrong with the question

If it is plug in it is out of the HI SOP and the commonsense of the HI

rlb

[relliott]

Rich , if a permenent item such as a Fridge is plugged in to an adaptor and it is not grounded to the center screw I will write it up, and would not be doing my job if I ignored it.
In Chicago we use the conduit as ground.
Two wire may be grandfathered in but the adapter better be secured for safety.
If I overlook this I might as well tell them to cut the ground leg off the plug.
Hope I made this clear.

[Christopher Currins]

I agree with Richard, unless it is an appliance like a refrigerator that is going to stay with the house. Then I would add similar verbiage to what Barry posted.

[Joe Farsetta]

Jae,

Two pronged receptacles may indeed be "grounded". The purpose of the third hole in the receptacle to extend the system ground to what ever is plugged into it.

Let's not lose sight of the difference between a grounded and grounding receptacle.

And, there may be an adequate ground present in "two wire" systems, if they are 2-wire with ground. Ths would included armor sheathed cable, where the sheath is the ground path. So long as it is properly rated, and mechanically (and electrically) bonded to the panel and receptacle box, the system ground is extended to the receptacle. In fact, some receptacles are (I believe) rated to be grounded via attachment screws between the receptacle and metallic box (no ground wire needed).

Sparkies.. I am ready for my flogging.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Jae,

Two pronged receptacles may indeed be "grounded". The purpose of the third hole in the receptacle to extend the system ground to what ever is plugged into it.

Let's not lose sight of the difference between a grounded and grounding receptacle.

And, there may be an adequate ground present in "two wire" systems, if they are 2-wire with ground. Ths would included armor sheathed cable, where the sheath is the ground path. So long as it is properly rated, and mechanically (and electrically) bonded to the panel and receptacle box, the system ground is extended to the receptacle. In fact, some receptacles are (I believe) rated to be grounded via attachment screws between the receptacle and metallic box (no ground wire needed).

Sparkies.. I am ready for my flogging.

Joe:

Right on!

"Contact Devices or Yokes Contact devices or yokes designed and listed as self-grounding are permitted in conjunction with the supporting screws to establish the grounding circuit between the device yoke and flush-type boxes."

[Greg Fretwell]

There was a period of time between the end of WWII and the 60s when the NEMA 5-15 became code that the "GI Bill" (mortgage) required a grounded wiring method but they still installed NEMA 1-15R receptacles. If you were in a place without an effective VA inspection program you might still have ungrounded boxes and some builders would simply not build a "GI" house.

[Jae Williams]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Jae,

Two pronged receptacles may indeed be "grounded". The purpose of the third hole in the receptacle to extend the system ground to what ever is plugged into it.

Let's not lose sight of the difference between a grounded and grounding receptacle.

And, there may be an adequate ground present in "two wire" systems, if they are 2-wire with ground.
Why would there be a two-wire with ground on a two-hole receptacle?
If the installer went to the expense of a third wire, he most likely would have use a three-hole receptacle.

Ths would included armor sheathed cable, where the sheath is the ground path. So long as it is properly rated, and mechanically (and electrically) bonded to the panel and receptacle box, the system ground is extended to the receptacle. In fact, some receptacles are (I believe) rated to be grounded via attachment screws between the receptacle and metallic box (no ground wire needed).
That could be true if the cable were metal-clad. Two electrical design engineers for a major appliance manufacturer (my neighbors) agreed that they did not feel the screw tab on adapters provided sufficient capability for the design behind the third wire.

However, it has been my experience over the last 40 years or so that 14/2 systems installed before the advent of 14/3 wire (the period between K&T of the 30's until the early 50's, when 14/2 was predomately in use) was primarily a non-metallic cable. Thus, a two-hole receptacle would not have the third wire capability.

I have no problem whatever with a two wire system. The problems arise with the manner in which it is used--adapters. Today's 21st centrury electrical service needs are not adequately provided by a 1940's system. Computers, especially, are the biggest abuser of adapter usage. I have also found many larger appliances, such as refrigerators, washing machines, and even dishwashers plugged into a two-wire system with an adapter--and I advise that this could lead to any number of unwanted issues.

Even K&T is not inherently dangerous, but the way we treat it may well be. Covering the K&T in the attic with insulation, or improplerly splicing directly into the wire with a NM cable. I have even seen it stapled to the joists to keep it from sagging.

I have objected to the presence of two-wire systems for many years, and will continue to do so as a matter of safety for my clients. Many electricians have approved of this--I suppose because it brings them potential business. But they have also said they give the same advice whenever they see such a system.

Cheers,

[Richard L. Bennett]

Just did a safety inspection yesterday - No ground wire to any outlets - 50 year old 60 amp panel in bed room closit

Electric drier - AC / Heat pump - Electric Hot water

Double tapped in sealed meter can with a fused disconect SW for drier

Double tapped in a disconect SW for the AC / heat pump and the main panel

----

Microwave pluged in with an adapter attached with a screw -- Small old refrigerator pluged in with an extention cord and an adapter

----

One 90 year old person living in home on fixed income

Everything has been working fine for many years

-----

What now?

Don't use dryer - refrigerator - AC / heat pump or microwave.


Take them out

Wire home back to how it was constructed 50 years ago and everything will be fine.

rlb