Do you report no G.F.C.Is in a house over 30 years old

[Paul W. Abernathy]

BTW....How in the HECK did you get 200+ more posts than me Brian.....you Serial Poster You...

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Ahhh Speedy Petey, a very common misconception. I just call out reccomendations and do not really care if they are addressed or not, let alone by whom.

Not really a misconception, and kind of my point.

I have to deal with the folks after you guys leave. So many times I get: "The 'inspector' says this 'needs' to be done.", regardless of how it is written. All the buyer knows it is in the report, and use it to their advantage.

I am not really complaining though. It gets me a lot of work.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Not really a misconception, and kind of my point.

I have to deal with the folks after you guys leave. So many times I get: "The 'inspector' says this 'needs' to be done.", regardless of how it is written. All the buyer knows it is in the report, and use it to their advantage.

I am not really complaining though. It gets me a lot of work.

lol...I hear ya brother......I get the same work as well.....but I think the point is the HI needs to explain it and cover their BUTT....regardless of the reaction or how the buyer will react or the seller for that matter...

The HI simply can't hold their hand and translate it beyond the initial conversation....you know.....like saying...

BRIAN KELLY actually caught the (2) fish in his profile....or he rented them from DALE DUFFY to simply show he is a good fisherman....see how things can seem....lol

Anyway.......the HI can only give their part...its the time they DONT report it that something happens and they WISH they did.....they cant be concerned with how the Buyer or Seller will INFLATE the problem and make it sound just to enhance or de-enhance the sale.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Not really a misconception, and kind of my point.

I have to deal with the folks after you guys leave. So many times I get: "The 'inspector' says this 'needs' to be done.", regardless of how it is written. All the buyer knows it is in the report, and use it to their advantage.

I am not really complaining though. It gets me a lot of work.

Duh............... That is how negotiations work. Everyone uses what they think will work for their advantage.

Still seems like a misconception to me. I am not responsible for what the seller does or does not know. Or for how honest and truthful they are either.

We are HI's not any type of governing athourity Speedy.

I find the phrase Pack Sand sometimes useful during negotiations. Sorta brings certain people back to earth.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol....funny story....I was called out to be the "FINAL" word on a argument from a HI and an Electrician.....sad thing is I knew them BOTH...

So I came out....one said one thing in the report and the other said it was wrong and this and that......so here I am playing Judge Paulie.....

Anyway....end result...I sided with the HI.....the Electrician was furious and not because I said he was incorrect.....it was because I did not SIDE with my fellow tradesmans regardless of who was right......lol........ahhh...it happens....

And I know of another time same situation.....( gotta remember I am listed on a well known site as VA's only electrical expert...now we know that is not a FACT...but I digress....) so they called me and the HI was wrong.....DEAD wrong....and the Electrician was 100% right........so everyone has an opinion and it's all good.....all works......but I agree with Speedy as well in that some sellers and buyers use the info as the almighty WORD.....but thats not the doing of the HI...or atleast it should not be....

Report Writing 101- Write it as a 3rd Party...keep it professional and state the facts.....

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

We are HI's not any type of governing athourity Speedy.

Absolutely not. I agree. Most buyers do not see it that way though.

Unfortunately most of the H-Is in my area are not as upstanding as most of you all here.
I can honestly say the main purpose of a H-I around here is to give the buyer leveraging power to negotiate the price down. Regardless of the facts.
So if a potential buyer drops a grand on a home inspection they expect to make that back up several times with a lower buying price. It is not at all simply about safety, or finding that hidden structural defect anymore.

[William J. Decker]

In Illinois, required to be called out as "Significantly Deficient", per the state's HI law. See here:

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/...00C02000R.html

Section a) 10. and a) 15.

If it poses a significant risk of personal injury due to changes in current residential construction standards, it is significantly deficient.

Had such a house. No GFCIs in basement bathroom (split level). Called it out and the seller had in an electrician that said it was code. Seller refused to fix based on that and buyer never fixed it.

4 months after moving in, buyers 14 year old son shocks himself and is in the hospital for 2 days with electrical burns on his feet.

Buyer's lawyer calls me to sue. I point out the comments in the report. My lawyer calls their lawyer and I am off the hook.

I even explained the reason during the inspection, but buyer didn't remember.

Electrician got off because he only has to work to 'code' (including grandfathering).

HIs have a higher standard of duty, under Illinois law and with reagrds to issues of safety than electricians or code inspectors.

We cannot "require", we can only recommend. Then it is up the the client to decide what to do.

Hope this helps;

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Remember Will....we have to keep it generic versus being an Illinois thing on the boards...lololol......we already know how weird Illinois is...so in general I would say always call it out...make the suggestion and everything should be ok....atleast something as little as a GFCI should never stop a sale...unless the sale was in trouble to begin with....

As an electrician I am also under many of those laws....if I see something i am compelled to bring it up.....if I think it is life threatening I MUST bring it up....you know.....I live in a Commonweath as such.

Interesting comment is that I am sure my attorney would have a field day with the term " significant risk ".....but I happen to agree that the GFCI not being their does pose a risk.....

[Richard L. Bennett]

Report it

We don't know what the code was in 1932 etc.

It is not a code issue

It is not a safety issue

It is a broke or missing thing - we tested for it and it did not pass - we don't even know where it is located - might be behind a dresser in another room that we could not find etc.

Create a safety issue page in your report and put it there

How would you report a missing hand rail??? -- Is it a code or safety issue or do you just do not report it??

I would report it in the general description of the home -- four bed room - two story -- frame - with full basement and no GFCI - smoke alarms - hand rails etc.

rlb

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Remember Will....we have to keep it generic versus being an Illinois thing on the boards...lololol......we already know how weird Illinois is...so in general I would say always call it out...make the suggestion and everything should be ok....atleast something as little as a GFCI should never stop a sale...unless the sale was in trouble to begin with.....

Totally agree, Paul. Point taken. That is why I preface my remarks with the "Illinois Disclaimer".

In the context of "We can only recommend, we cannot require", the law makes sense.

When you figure all the people involved in the sale (seller, listing agent, developer, even (sometimes) the buyer's agent (if they are smart enough to have one).) there are many people involved who don't want to "rock the boat".

I try to remember that I am representing the client (whoever that is) and try to do my best from, sometimes, saving them from themselves.

[ekartal6]

If there are any new inspectors reading this thread please do not tell a client they have to be changed. Older GFCI's are granfathered from mandatory replacement. Recommend what others here have said and the client will very likely have them replaced.

Erol Kartal
Pro Inspect

[ekartal6]

Missed your post above Will about the "requirement" issue.

Erol

[Dennis Hodkinson]

I do not know of an electrican that is going to install a GFCI for $12.95.
An I know that you are going to recommend that they be installed by a qualified electrican. I go along the same lines as Brian K and list it
as an Elective Upgrade. When my customers ask if the sellers will install
them I tell them that it is doubtful and then ask them this question.
"If you go out and buy a 55 Chevy, are you going to ask the seller to
install airbags?" But I tell them that they can always ask their agent
because thats why he gets the big buck. "Ask for three, hope for two
and you might get one".

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Dennis Hodkinson

I do not know of an electrican that is going to install a GFCI for $12.95.
An I know that you are going to recommend that they be installed by a qualified electrican. I go along the same lines as Brian K and list it
as an Elective Upgrade. When my customers ask if the sellers will install
them I tell them that it is doubtful and then ask them this question.
"If you go out and buy a 55 Chevy, are you going to ask the seller to
install airbags?" But I tell them that they can always ask their agent
because thats why he gets the big buck. "Ask for three, hope for two
and you might get one".

Good point. I am not (and work not to be) a party to any "negotiations".

As you say, that is why the Realtor gets between 6 and 2.5 percent and the lawyer gets some fixed amount and the typical home inspector gets around 1/10th or 1 percent of the sale price.

We only state the facts. What people do with them is their job.

BTW: How many times have the Realtor and/or the client followed you around and asked that you make sure that every little crack or bad caulk joint of picture nail hole or "isn't this paint color just tacky. Make sure that you note that in your report and take a picture."

They are just fishing for give backs.

I just write it as I see it.

Talk soft, write hard, miss nothing.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by pcloninger

Should you report G.F.C.Is missing in a house that is over 30 years of age? If not should you tell them that it might be a good idea to add them in the needed areas, next to sinks, outside outlets, ect...

I used to note them as missing, but, after reading one of Jeff Pope's posts concerning verbiage, I changed my wording. As Jeff said, something can only be missing if it were originally there. Since GFCI's were not originally there, or we don't know if they were originally there, I use the words "not present," i.e., "GFCI or GFCI-protected outlets not present in kitchen, two bathrooms, laundry, garage, and exterior." Now what I've done with the "not present" verbiage is state that, regardless of whether or not they originally were there, they are not there now. And since they are life-saving devices, they should be there, notwithstanding when the structure was built. Not only are they life-saving devices, but they are inexpensive life-saving devices. Home Depot sells a set of four for $19.99 (note the Power of Nines there).

Russel