Double Tapped Breaker

[Michael Peterson]

Hey everybody.
I did an inspection last week and found a 20a breaker that goes to god knows what since it wasn't labeled. It also was double tapped to feed a 2 amp motor for an awning. I called it out and now the agent called me back and said that he talked to the company and that they said they do it that way all the time. I told him that it was wrong and that they need to have a licensed electrician fix it or give it the OK. I am just looking for info in this and how best to handle it. If anybody has a code it would be great. By the way he said that he would have the awning company call me they haven't yet (shocking).
Thanks
Mark

[Marc D. Shunk]

I sorta thought the word was out now that there are several brands of breakers, particularly in the 15 and 20 amp sizes, that can be compliantly double-tapped. What brand and model are we dealing with here?

[Michael Peterson]

Here is a pic it was a 20a breaker the one in the middle tell me what you think
Thanks

[Larry D. Kage]

This is a type that accepts 2 wires:

[Speedy Petey]

Am I seeing two wires on that breaker or not?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by mpeterson

Here is a pic it was a 20a breaker the one in the middle tell me what you think
Thanks

I think that's a Siemens breaker. I don't know crap about them. Maybe someone else does?

[Michael Peterson]

Its hard to tell in the pic but there is another wire directly under the top one

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by mpeterson

Its hard to tell in the pic but there is another wire directly under the top one

If a breaker is not equipped with receiving hardware like this Square-D breaker...(See the two open slots?)


Then you've got a double tap that needs to be separated. I stopped calling out the low voltage wiring such as doorbell transformers because every panel I run into have these double tapped.

[cbrands]

Larry's right on with his pic.

If the breaker in question is rated for 2 wires, it's tapped incorrectly anyway.

Wires should be side by side under the terminal, not on top of each other.

The flared ends of the terminal are designed to hold the wires individually.

I believe some Square D and Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for this???

Can't tell what this one is.

Funny that the agent thinks it's ok cause the "awning guy" says so.

You were right for calling it out, even if it was rated for the double tap.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Those Siemens Q series breakers have a captured square washer, with a wire niche on each side of the screw. I've never been able to find anything official from Siemens, or on the breaker, that actually confirms you can double tap a QP breaker. I know the ITE's that proceeded them, you couldn't, but they had a slightly different terminal design. I almost never run across Siemens resi equipment in my area, so I never puzzled on it before. Siemens is mostly heavy industrial stuff.

[Michael Peterson]

I just talked to the buyers in this case and told them to have the owner get it inspected and certified by an electrician then I further told him that because the awning company says its OK to have them pay for the electrician. The awning company says it is their standard operation procedure. Can you believe that every house they put an awning on they do this </IMG>

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I am only aware of (2) models that activly allow multiple conductors at this time....Square D QO and Cutler Hammer CH models......

It will say it right on the side of the breaker if it allows this application.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by mpeterson

Here is a pic it was a 20a breaker the one in the middle tell me what you think
Thanks

Are those two different sized conductors?

[Michael Peterson]

no the conductors are the same size

[pdickerson]

Originally Posted by cbrands

Larry's right on with his pic.
I believe some Square D and Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for this???

I read several times on this site that some Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for two conductors. I poked around on their website, but I did not find a definitive answer. Does anybody know which, if any, model Cutler Hammer breakers are rated for 2 wires? Could you post a link, or better yet paste it into a post? Thanks.