International Association of Certified Home Inspectors
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| Electrical Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes outlets, panels, wiring, et cetera. |
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#1
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Please Note:
jtedesco1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
I can use some help here, and would appreciate it if someone would review each of the publications below, and identify the items we would encounter during an inspection. Keep in mind that these are UL standards and cover many areas related to equipment installed in the buildings we live in and occupy.
Annex A Product Safety Standards Annex A is not a part of the requirements of this NFPA document but is included for informational purposes only. This informational annex provides a list of product safety standards used for product listing where that listing is required by this Code. It is recognized that this list is current at the time of publication but that new standards or modifications to existing standards can occur at any time while this edition of the Code is in effect. This annex does not form a mandatory part of the requirements of this Code but is intended only to provide Code users with informational guidance about the product characteristics about which Code requirements have been based. Product Standard Name Product Standard Number Antenna-Discharge Units Arc-Fat Circuit-Interrupters Armored Cable Attachment Plugs and Receptacles Audio/Video and Musical Instrument Apparatus for Household, Commercial, and Similar General Use Audio-Video Products and Accessories Busways Cables — Thermoplastic-Insulated Underground Feeder and Branch-Circuit Cables Cables — Thermoplastic-Insulated Wires and Cables Cables — Thermoset-Insulated Wires and Cables Cables for Non–Power-Limited Fire-Alarm Circuits Cables for Power-Limited Fire-Alarm Circuits Capacitors Cellar Metal Floor Raceways and Fittings Circuit Integrity (CI) Cable — Outline of Investigation for Fire Tests for Electrical Circuit Protective Systems Subject Circuit Integrity (CI) Cable — Tests of Fire Resistive Cables Class and Class Transformers Class Power Units Commercial Audio Equipment Communication Circuit Accessories Communications Cables Community-Antenna Television Cables Conduit, Tubing, and Cable Fittings B Conduit — Type EB and A Rigid PVC Conduit and HDPE Conduit A Continuous Length HDPE Conduit B HDPE Control Centers for Changing Message Type Electric Signs Cord Sets and Power-Supply Cords Cover Plates for Flush-Mounted Wiring Devices D Data-Processing Cable Dead-Front Switchboards Electric Motors Electric Sign Components Electric Signs Electric Spas, Equipment Assemblies, and Associated Equipment Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging System Equipment Electric Water Heaters for Pools and Tubs Electrical Apparatus for Explosive Gas Atmospheres — Part : Intrinsic Safety “i” ISA -/ – Electrical Apparatus for Explosive Gas Atmospheres — Part : Type of Protection “n” ISA -/ – Electrical Apparatus for Use in Class I, Zone Hazardous (Classified) Locations Type of Protection — Encapsulation “m” ISA S../ - Electrical Apparatus for Use in Class I, Zones O & Hazardous (Classified) Locations: General Requirements ISA ../ - Electrical Apparatus for Use in Class I, Zone Hazardous (Classified) Locations: Type of Protection — Increased Safety “e” ISA S../ - Electrical Apparatus for Use in Class I, Zone Hazardous (Classified) Locations: Type of Protection — Flameproof “d” ISA S../ - Electrical Apparatus for Use in Class I, Zone Hazardous (Classified) Locations: Type of Protection — Powder Filling “q” ISA S../ - Electrical Apparatus for Use in Class I, Zone Hazardous (Classified) Locations: Type of Protection — Oil-Immersion “O” ISA S../ - Electrical Heating Appliances Electrical Intermediate Metal Conduit — Steel Electrical Metallic Tubing — Aluminum A Electrical Metallic Tubing — Steel Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing Electrical Rigid Metal Conduit — Steel Electric-Battery-Powered Industrial Trucks Emergency Lighting and Power Equipment Enclosed and Dead-Front Switches Enclosures for Electrical Equipment Energy Management Equipment Fire Pump Controllers Fire Resistive Cables Fixture Wire Flame Propagation Height of Electrical and Optical-Fiber Cables Installed Vertically in Shafts Flat-Plate Photovoltaic Modes and Panels Flexible Cords Flexible Lighting Products Flexible Metal Conduit Fluorescent-Lamp Ballasts Gas and Vapor Detectors and Sensors Gas-Burning Heating Appliances for Manufactured Homes and Recreational Vehicles B Gas-Fired Cooking Appliances for Recreational Vehicles Gas-Tube-Sign Cable General-Use Snap Switches Ground-Fat Circuit-Interrupters Ground-Fat Sensing and Relaying Equipment Grounding and Bonding Equipment Hardware for the Support of Conduit, Tubing and Cable Heating and Cooling Equipment High-Intensity-Discharge Lamp Ballasts High Voltage Industrial Control Equipment Household Refrigerators and Freezers Industrial Battery Chargers Industrial Control Equipment Industrial Control Panels A Instrumentation Tray Cable Insulated Wire Connector Systems for Underground Use or in Damp or Wet Locations D Inverters, Converters, Controllers and Interconnection System Equipment for Use with Distributed Energy Resources Isolated Power Systems Equipment Junction Boxes for Swimming Pool Luminaires Liquid Fuel-Burning Heating Appliances for Manufactured Homes and Recreational Vehicles A Liquid-Tight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit Liquid-Tight Flexible Steel Conduit Lithium Batteries Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : General Requirements - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class C Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class CA and CB Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class CC Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class G Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class H Non-Renewable Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class H Renewable Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class J Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class K Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class L Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Plug Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class R Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Semiconductor Fuses – Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Supplemental Fuses – Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Class T Fuses - Low-Voltage Fuses — Part : Test Limiters - Low-Voltage Landscape Lighting Systems Low-Voltage Lighting Fixtures for Use in Recreational Vehicles Low Voltage Luminaires Low-Voltage Switchgear and Control gear, Part : General Requirements - Low-Voltage Switchgear and Control Gear — Part -: Contactors and Motor Starters -- Luminaire Reflector Kits for Installation on Previously Installed Fluorescent Luminaires, Supplemental Requirements Machine-Tool Wires and Cables Manufactured Wiring Systems Medical Electrical Equipment — Part : General Requirements – Medium-Voltage Power Cables Metal-Clad Cables Metal-Clad Cables and Cable-Sealing Fittings for Use in Hazardous (Classified) Locations Metallic Outlet Boxes A Mobile Home Pipe Heating Cable Molded-Case Circuit Breakers, Molded-Case Switches, and Circuit-Breaker Enclosures Motor Control Centers Motor-Operated Appliances Neon Transformers and Power Supplies Nonincendive Electrical Equipment for Use in Class I and II, Division and Class III, Divisions and Hazardous (Classified) Locations ISA-.. Nonmetallic Outlet Boxes, Flush-Device Boxes, and Covers C Nonmetallic Surface Raceways and Fittings A Nonmetallic Underground Conduit with Conductors Office Furnishings Optical Fiber Cable Optical Fiber and Communication Cable Raceway Panelboards Personal Protection Systems for Electric Vehicle Supply Circuits: General Requirements – Personal Protection Systems for Electric Vehicle Supply Circuits: Requirements for Protection Devices for Use in Charging Systems – Plugs, Receptacles and Couplers for Electrical Vehicles Portable Electric Luminaires Portable Power Distribution Units Potting Compounds for Swimming Pool, Fountain, and Spa Equipment A Power Conversion Equipment C Power Outlets Power Units Other Than Class Power-Limited Circuit Cables Professional Video and Audio Equipment Protectors for Coaxial Communications Circuits C Protectors for Data Communication and Fire Alarm Circuits B Protectors for Paired Conductor Communications Circuits Reference Standard for Electrical Wires, Cables, and Flexible Cords Reinforced Thermosetting Resin Conduit (RTRC) and Fittings Residential Pipe Heating Cable Roof and Gutter De-Icing Cable Units Room Air Conditioners Safety of Information Technology Equipment, Part : General Requirements – Safety of Information Technology Equipment, Part : Remote Power Feeding - Schedule and Rigid PVC Conduit and Fittings Seasonal and Holiday Decorative Products Secondary Protectors for Communications Circuits A Self-Ballasted Lamps and Lamp Adapters Service-Entrance Cables Smoke Detectors for Fire Alarm Signaling Systems Specialty Transformers Splicing Wire Connectors C Stage and Studio Lighting Standby Batteries Stationary Engine Generator Assemblies Strut-Type Channel Raceways and Fittings B Surface Metal Raceways and Fittings Surface Raceways and Fittings for Use with Data, Signal and Control Circuits C Surge Arresters — Gapped Silicon-Carbide Surge Arresters for AC Power Circuits IEEE C. Surge Arresters — Metal-Oxide Surge Arresters for AC Power Circuits IEEE C. Swimming Pool Pumps, Filters, and Chlorinators Telephone Equipment Transfer Switch Equipment Transient Voltage Surge Suppressors Underfloor Raceways and Fittings Underwater Luminaires and Submersible Junction Boxes Uninterruptible Power Systems Vacuum Cleaners, Blower Cleaners, and Household Floor Finishing Machines Waste Disposers Wire Connectors A-B Wireways, Auxiliary Gutters, and Associated Fittings Last edited by jtedesco1; 1/10/08 at 12:25 AM. |
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#2
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Please Note:
Mike Whitt is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Quote:
Quote:
It would be a big help if you gave us your password so we could access these standards as not many in this forum could afford to buy these standards. As you have pointed out in your post these standards are for information purposes ONLY and are not mandatory to any installation but simply something that the manufacturing of the end product is based on. The one thing that I have learned over the years is that the Home Inspector has one of the hardest jobs on the job market today. Their knowledge base has to be astronomical due to the enormous amount of different items they are responsible for looking at. This is why it is so important to ensure that the information we as educators give them is correct. Case in point; I went to evaluate the electrical installation of an old house that had two wire circuits where the devices was changed to grounding type and protected with GFCI devices. The Home Inspector had ask for an evaluation of the electrical system and pointed out several items one being that the GFCI did not operate when he used his tester. Included with the installation instructions with every GFCI device on the market today is the testing procedures for testing the device. The instructions clearly state to use the test button on the device and not rely on the button of the little plug-in tester as this Home Inspector had did. When I pushed the test button on the GFCI device it functioned as it was designed to do. Now what choice did I have but to report that the GECI devices in the house were working properly? How did the people involved in the selling and buying of the house look at the Home Inspector’s report after getting three different electrical contractors look at the electrical system and coming back with the same report, the GFCI devices are working properly. With the UL Standards that you have posted that most of the members of this forum will never see and are not part of the instructions included with the labeling of the equipment what has the Home Inspector gained? Instead of adding fuel to the fire of the animosity that exist between Home Inspectors and the building trades today I feel that there is a great need to make sure that they both are working in unison for the same end result. In order for this to happen it is imperative that they both have the same understanding of the codes and inspection process during the building process. In order to have a better unison between the Home Inspector and the building trades it is important to make sure that they both understand why certain things are the way they are when doing home inspections today. As outlined in the paragraph that you highlighted it is clear that the UL Standards are not part of the codes and are not enforceable so to quote a section of one of these standards as something to use as a reference for the Home Inspector is not helping to have an understanding between the Home Inspector and the contractors of the building trades. In my opinion it is doing both the Home Inspector and the contractor a disservice. A good example of this is UL Standard 67 that keeps reappearing throughout this forum. If this standard had always been in effect and was enforceable do you think that from border to border and coast to coast the doubling of neutrals would have taken place? Do you really think that for decades that all the electricians and electrical inspectors weren’t doing their jobs correctly? I hope that I am always able to give my audience good helpful information that they can take out into the work place and apply but the one thing that they can’t take into the work day is standards that are not enforceable. To make a statement that according to UL Standards this or that is not allowed then requires the person making that statement liable to substantiate that statement. Being that none of these standards, by word of the code book itself, are mandatory parts of the Code how could they be quoted as a hazard? How could a Home Inspector substantiate his remarks? |
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#3
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Please Note:
jtedesco1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Mike:
Where did you see any reference related to any quoting of any standard, I asked for help identifying some of the equipment the inspector will see in dwellings and commercial buildings. I will remove the UL and numbers, but remember these terms are what the AHJ will use in order to approve any job. Labeled. Equipment or materials to which has been attached a label, symbol, or other identifying mark of an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with product evaluation, that maintains periodic inspection of production of labeled equipment or materials, and by whose labeling the manufacturer indicates compliance with appropriate standards or performance in a specified manner. Listed. Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that the equipment, material, or services either meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose. I should give out the password, what password, you want me to lose my job? Besides, I don't have any password, major companies pay for this service and use the standards that they need in order to investigate a product for a field label. |
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#4
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Please Note:
Mike Whitt is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Joe
You finally hit the nail on the head. When the manufacturer installs the label he is saying that the end product complies with these standards and when listed that a NTRL has confirmed that it also complies with that NTRL’s standards. In the scope of the AHJ this could be any one from the installer up to and including the Supreme Court of this great nation. As referred to in the definition of Labeled the AHJ would be; The phrase “authority having jurisdiction” is used in NFPA documents in a broad manner, since jurisdictions and approval agencies vary, as do their responsibilities. Where public safety is primary, the AHJ may be a federal, state, local, or other regional department or individual such as a fire chief; fire marshal; chief of a fire prevention bureau, labor department, or health department; building official; electrical inspector; or others having statutory authority. For insurance purposes, an insurance inspection department, rating bureau, or other insurance company representative may be the AHJ. In many circumstances, the property owner or his or her designated agent assumes the role of the AHJ; at government installations, the commanding officer or departmental official may be the AHJ. Possibly the governmental body responsible for the adoption of the NEC. Take a close look at 90 in the front of the NEC where it gives the layout of the code. 90.3 Code Arrangement. This Code is divided into the introduction and nine chapters, as shown in Figure 90.3. Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply generally; Chapters 5, 6, and 7 apply to special occupancies, special equipment, or other special conditions. These latter chapters supplement or modify the general rules. Chapters 1 through 4 apply except as amended by Chapters 5, 6, and 7 for the particular conditions. Chapter 8 covers communications systems and is not subject to the requirements of Chapters 1 through 7 except where the requirements are specifically referenced in Chapter 8. Chapter 9 consists of tables. Annexes are not part of the requirements of this Code but are included for informational purposes only. Quote:
Well Joe you ask all these fine folks what part of these standards they use but you didn’t give them access to the standards. How are they to know anything about the standard if they can’t access them? For a fee one can obtain access to these standards via the internet with a User Name and a Password that can be obtained from UL or a hard copy can be purchased. When my Honda Element was manufactured there was a requirement for the metal in the frame to meet a certain standard. When I bought my Honda Element I hired a mechanic to check that all the standards was followed and to call out any that didn’t Now that sounds silly don’t you think? The same is true about these standards that you keep posting for the Home Inspector to quote. |
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#5
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Please Note:
jtedesco1 is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Mike:
I am sorry if I did not make it clear to you, I posted the standards to give the names and types of equipment. I was not expecting the Home Inspector read each standard. Look at the list and tell me which equipment we inspect, such as AFCI's and GFCI's. I hope this helps. I will try to make my self clearer in the future. What color is your car? ![]() |
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