Electrical Inspection with Temp. Service?

[David A. Andersen]

Inspected a house outside of my normal service area yesterday. It is new construction. No electric meter was in place. A final electrical inspection had been issued. It appears that testing was done with temporary electrical service. What's up with this?

Can a final inspection be conducted in accordance with the NEC using an extension cord to a 30 amp service?

The builder refuses to have a meter installed for testing. He says it's the buyers responsibility even though the buyer doesn't own the house yet!?

A second question: electrical grounding to the water piping is connected to the grounding bar in the main service panel. No other wire is attached to this terminal buss. The conduit from the meter can to the main service panel is plastic. The service panel is grounded at the water pipe but nothing else is connected to the panel. The GEC connects at the meter can.

Am I correct in assuming this configuration is only grounded to the transformer? I can not determine if the GEC goes beyond the meter.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by dandersen

Inspected a house outside of my normal service area yesterday. It is new construction. No electric meter was in place. A final electrical inspection had been issued. It appears that testing was done with temporary electrical service. What's up with this?

Can a final inspection be conducted in accordance with the NEC using an extension cord to a 30 amp service?

The builder refuses to have a meter installed for testing. He says it's the buyers responsibility even though the buyer doesn't own the house yet!?

A second question: electrical grounding to the water piping is connected to the grounding bar in the main service panel. No other wire is attached to this terminal buss. The conduit from the meter can to the main service panel is plastic. The service panel is grounded at the water pipe but nothing else is connected to the panel. The GEC connects at the meter can.

Am I correct in assuming this configuration is only grounded to the transformer? I can not determine if the GEC goes beyond the meter.

OK...I want to answer your first question...first.....

I would suggest you check with the local AHJ on this because being a final inspection on a dwelling to allow the CO yet not having the meter and service in place is just wrong.......NO where in the NEC does it allow for this....

Now...as a temp. to the dwelling for construction a cord is fine but not at the final inspection of the actual dwelling....final inspection should not take place without meter can in place and so on......PLUS this should be the Sub-Contractors job ( The Electrical Contractor ) to have this in place.....

Now are you sure you are not speaking of Temp. Service, which has alot of leeway....BUT still in a Temp Service you should have the meter in place and service should be complete.....and we know the minimum service allowed is 100A...and that is GROSSLY to small these days....I look for the NEC to up it to 150A in the future minimum....anyway I digress.....

I have been doing this for 18 years....always as a Contractor and I do not ever recall someone getting final CO on a house without the meter in place and service completed..........Temps are Temps...not the final.....

I am so amazed at the work being done out their.......The builder is kinda correct.....unless he is also the Electrical Contractor...whom REALLY should be the one installing the Meter Can..........

On the second question......I have to ask you a few question here to explain this...

Is the waterpipe coming into the house METAL....and in contact with the earth for 10'.....If by chance the piping in the house is metal but the underground line is plastic then the bonding wire from the service panel to the metal piping waterpipe inside is just part of the bonding.......really depends on the waterpipe feeding the dwelling.......the NEC says all metal piping inside the house likely to become energized must be bonded....BUT are they using the waterpipe as the GE.....not if it is not metal going out of the house...thats important........otherwise they are simply complying with the bonding requirement.

On the GEC....it can come from the Meter Can, Connection point at the messenger or the Service Disconnect Panel....either 3.....BUT not all or multiples......having the GEC to the meter is perfectly fine...the Grounded Conductor from the meter to the panel services the grounding needs and is allowed within in the NEC....and be glad they used Plastic Pipe between them or we bring up other issues......

My point here is.......we need to know if the Water Pipe is being used as the GE.....or simply using copper lets say in the dwelling and they are bonding to it per the NEC...but the waterpipe itself going out is not metal in which they would not use it as the GE.......

Let me know......also feel free to call me anytime....540-607-0116

[Greg Fretwell]

I have seen electric finals without power. (tested with a generator) I don't like it but it is really up to the AHJ. The NEC is really silent on how inspections are performed.
I have also see plumbing finals without water, tested with a hose from another house.
The CO is another issue. They need both meters in place for the CO.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Greg,

Thanks brother.......yeah CO is my main issue......funny in that in this case would most certainly think the EC would have installed that and it is in place...strange response from the builder who is probably the GC on the job.

Amazing....I as a contractor whould NEVER get final without my panel in place and service buttoned up...now I get Temp. Services alot and use the washer with a GFCI receptacle in it all the time......but never via a Generator or Temp Pole......

Sounds BACK WOODs to me....lol.......yeah I agree again the AHJ's have alot of power in these cases....

The LACK of working together by the Builder and the Contractors is VERY evident here in this post.......could not imagine buying a house and the builder saying...OH....you need to get the meter done and service finished.....i'd say....WHAT.........surly you JEST...

[Greg Fretwell]

These are cases where the utility is the hang up. The house is done but they still do not have water or power. They call it prairie building. That is a lot more common around here than you would think. My wife had 23 houses sitting waiting for water and power this spring. Water is harder to get than power.
They still need a meter for the final.
She actually went down to the plumbing supply and bought her own water meter to get a CO and close. They got it put on her company bill until the water company could get around to setting their own meter. She now has a spare. They need a meter for tapping fire hydrants anyway so that is not a big deal.

[David A. Andersen]

I plan on calling the AHJ , but I want to get my stuff together first.

There is a temporary pole out at the street. It is not hooked up to the house at all right now. There is a 50 amp RV type panel on the temporary pole. I understand temporary service code requirements. There are OK there.

There was electrical inspection paperwork in the main service panel. Final. I can only assume that they ran an extension cord from the temporary service pole to the house to conduct any testing which may have been performed.

The meter can is in place. No meter is installed in the can.

To be perfectly honest with you, I could care less what the AHJ does or is doing. My biggest issue is that the contractor refuses to place a meter for the house to be inspected. The potential buyer has to go downtown and get a temporary service on a property they don't have any right to set up an account on yet because they haven't closed. The lead contractor showed up and treated myself and the real estate agent like redheaded stepchildren wanting to know what we were doing at the house. Good communication on the listing agent's part I guess! Anyway, I'm more concerned in protecting my clients interests and want to conduct my own electrical inspection.

As for question number two:

The water pipe from the street is PVC.
The water pipe is bonded from the water heater (copper pipe) to the service panel. This is bonding the ground buss and the case of the panel only. The conduit from the service panel to the meter, where the GEC is located is plastic and does not bond the panel. My point is that they are bonding the service panel to water pipe (which is not in contact with 10 ft of soil) but the panel is not bonded to any ground when it is connected to the grounding buss and nothing else connects it to the meter can or the GEC. All neutral and ground conductors are attached to the Neutral buss of the service panel . There is a bonding screw from the neutral buss to the panel.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by dandersen

I plan on calling the AHJ , but I want to get my stuff together first.

There is a temporary pole out at the street. It is not hooked up to the house at all right now. There is a 50 amp RV type panel on the temporary pole. I understand temporary service code requirements. There are OK there.

There was electrical inspection paperwork in the main service panel. Final. I can only assume that they ran an extension cord from the temporary service pole to the house to conduct any testing which may have been performed.

The meter can is in place. No meter is installed in the can.

To be perfectly honest with you, I could care less what the AHJ does or is doing. My biggest issue is that the contractor refuses to place a meter for the house to be inspected. The potential buyer has to go downtown and get a temporary service on a property they don't have any right to set up an account on yet because they haven't closed. The lead contractor showed up and treated myself and the real estate agent like redheaded stepchildren wanting to know what we were doing at the house. Good communication on the listing agent's part I guess! Anyway, I'm more concerned in protecting my clients interests and want to conduct my own electrical inspection.

As for question number two:

The water pipe from the street is PVC.
The water pipe is bonded from the water heater (copper pipe) to the service panel. This is bonding the ground buss and the case of the panel only. The conduit from the service panel to the meter, where the GEC is located is plastic and does not bond the panel. My point is that they are bonding the service panel to water pipe (which is not in contact with 10 ft of soil) but the panel is not bonded to any ground when it is connected to the grounding buss and nothing else connects it to the meter can or the GEC. All neutral and ground conductors are attached to the Neutral buss of the service panel . There is a bonding screw from the neutral buss to the panel.

I hear ya ......not telling you that the AHJ means anything just giving you my opinion is all. I am just not familiar with someone getting a final on an extention cord type set up...lol.....greg has better insite on that...either way I think it is backwoods.....BUT I can see that the builder does not want to OPEN an Electrical Account with the Utl which is why he is doing this...wants to get paid and leave...and let the final METER issue to the home owner...I guess looking at it that way....seems ok....but again will be hard to get CO like that......around my neck of the woods....no meter can with socket no final inspection.....

On your panel bonding issue....it is fine that the water piping inside the house is being BONDED to as the NEC requires....if it is PVC from the steet then they are not using the waterpipe as the GE...simply bonding metal piping within the house to meet the bonding requirement for metal piping only....it is PERFECTLY allowed to have the GEC from the meter to the Ground Rods...and not come into the service panel......done all the time...the GROUNDED conductor from the meter to the panel services the purpose for this...and is perfectly legal and allowed by the NEC.......nothing wrong with that situation in my mind...done everyday.

[David A. Andersen]

Here are some pics.

[David A. Andersen]

Thanks for helping me get my thinking cap on straight!

Your, exactly right. The builder (who has been around) just dosen't want to mess with the utility $$. As you said, "take the money and run"!

Hell, this is just the electrical part...
You should see the fire code violations and other safety and structural "modifications" he got away with!!!

[Paul W. Abernathy]

David,

I don't doubt it.........probably why the GUY wants to CUT and RUN......lol....sounds like a real TIGHT *****.......if you pardon my FRENCH.

I however do not like the AMOUNT of insulation the EC stripped off the "Grounded" conductors prior to termination on the buss bar.......POOR QUALITY for the Electrical Contractor if you ask me.

[David A. Andersen]

Agreed. No Anti-Ox on the conductors either.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

No-OX not required....is allowed but not required and in most new panels the manufacturers do not say to use No-OX....

BUT between me and you...I LIKE to see No-OX on those bad boys

[Greg Fretwell]

Paul, right across the river from you in Md it used to be common for new houses to be sold without a meter in place. The drop is in. That was the way my house was. They may have jumpered it out to test or used a temp meter but I had to get the utility to cut the seal, remove that plastic cover and set the meter before I had any power.
OTOH the meter has to be set here in Florida for the CO. You can get your final on all of the inspections but they can't close without a CO.
A lot of times that ends up being a FAX copy since it happened the day of the closing and they may be sitting at the closing table waiting for it.

[Greg Fretwell]

BTW I just remembered, I didn't have a CO for my house in Md. It wasn't until many years later that we discovered it ... when I was putting on an addition.

... so maybe, nevermind.

That was a long story. Basically I just moved in.