electrical panel clearance issues

[acostigan]

I have a house that has a waste pipe 28 inches in front of the electrical panel that goes into the basement slab. It was obviously there when the house was built, which was the 1940's. It is a cutler hammer electrical panel. Can this be grandfathered in? Does the 36 inch rule of clear space in front of the panel not apply to this house; or would the panel have to be moved?

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Equipment, piping and ducts shall not be placed in the depth of the panel area extending directly above the top of the panelboard from the panelboard to the ceiling above.

[acostigan]

I understand that nothing is supposed to be within the "36 inches space" in front of the panel; but what would there alternative be; move the panel? Or would they need to jack hammer up the floor and move the pipe? I don't see an easy fix for the homeowner. It was like this when the house was built in the forties.

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by acostigan

I understand that nothing is supposed to be within the "36 inches space" in front of the panel; but what would there alternative be; move the panel? Or would they need to jack hammer up the floor and move the pipe? I don't see an easy fix for the homeowner. .

From here the panel looks newer than original (40's). Is there local code enforcement where house is located? Is there an inspection tag anywhere on the panel? Explain to client if/when new electrical service is installed it may have to be re-located due to accepted clearance requirements.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

What part of my post above did you not understand?

There can not be any pipes, duct within the depth of the panel to the ceiling. Anything in front of the panel is fine.

Look at this sketch here.

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by mcyr

What part of my post above did you not understand?

There can not be any pipes, duct within the depth of the panel to the ceiling. Anything in front of the panel is fine.

Look at this sketch here.

Attachment 40294

He didn't understand the part of your post that is incorrect. A panel requires a working space of 30" in width, 36" of depth and 78" of height in front of it. You're referring to the dedicated space requirement. They are not one in the same.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

It would be incorrect if the pipe was directly in front of that panel in the 36 inch space.

I don't follow you. If a pipe is above the panel at the ceiling within that 36" space, it is not above the panel and not infringing on the 36" clearance.

[acostigan]

Your right; I am guessing the panel was changed out in the 60's without regard to the the waste pipe within the 36 inch space in front of the panel. They are going to have to have the panel relocted to meet code.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

If there is a single aspect of the National Electrical Code (NEC) that HVACR designers should be familiar with, it is the requirements that define the space around electrical equipment from which piping, ductwork, and other obstructions must be excluded. In spite of what some of the mechanical engineers 1 work with think, these requirements are not intended to make your life difficult, but to ensure that equipment can be safely operated and maintained and that adequate space is reserved above it to install conduits and cables.
WORKING CLEARANCE
Sections 110.26 and 110.34 of the NEC require working clearance in front of any equipment that may require examination, adjustment servicing, or maintenance while energized. This requirement, intended to allow an electrician to safely work on energized equipment, applies to switchgear, distribution panels, motor control centers, standalone motor starters, and most control panels. Required depth depends upon the operating voltage of the equipment, as given in Table 1. The clear space must extend from the floor to the greater of the equipment height or 6-1/2 ft, with a width equal to that of the equipment, but not less than 30 in.

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by mcyr

It would be incorrect if the pipe was directly in front of that panel in the 36 inch space.

I don't follow you. If a pipe is above the panel at the ceiling within that 36" space, it is not above the panel and not infringing on the 36" clearance.

This house has a waste pipe 28 inches in front (depth). So 28" from front of panel is waste pipe. Code requires 36" (depth) clearance.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Well, I agree, if it is in front of the panel withing the 36". I was thinking that the pipe is at the ceiling way above the panel.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Well, that picture wasn't there when we started. So my next question, was it a code requirement back in 1940 to have the 36" clear workspace in front of the panel?

Personally, I don't see a big issue here at all. Even with the fact it does not meet the NEC code of today.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

If you guys are doing a Code Enforcement Inspections, I would agree, but I am not a Code Enforement Officer, and I don't see a safety issue here.

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by mcyr

Well, that picture wasn't there when we started. So my next question, was it a code requirement back in 1940 to have the 36" clear workspace in front of the panel?

Personally, I don't see a big issue here at all. Even with the fact it does not meet the NEC code of today.

Me either. It fact it looks like pipe may be outside of 30" width requirement.

[acostigan]

Code enforcement inspections? I realize we are not code enforcement inspectors; but should we not inform the home owner or future home owner if there is a infringement on the 36 inch rule regarding safety in front of the electrical panel. The NEC came up with 36 inches for a reason and anything infringing on that is a safety violation. I believe anything that dosen't follow the NEC is a safety as well as code violation. I don't let anything slide on electrical violations with the NEC. There is just way to much that happens to property because of electrical problems or violations then anything else. I would recomend having the panel relocated; just seeing what others in our group would see.

Thanks for the responses.