Electrical receptacles / House built in 1953

[rbrady]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I'm mildly shocked that nobody has expressed concern that the person who wrote the above information appears to be actively inspecting homes and charging money for it.

I don't think there are very many homes that old in Moreno Valley!!

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I'm mildly shocked that nobody has expressed concern that the person who wrote the above information appears to be actively inspecting homes and charging money for it.

Marc, lucky you're many miles from Moreno Valley, therefore only "mildly" shocked.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by jkogel

Marc, lucky you're many miles from Moreno Valley, therefore only "mildly" shocked.

That took a minute to sink in, but I finally got it. Good one.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I'm mildly shocked that nobody has expressed concern that the person who wrote the above information appears to be actively inspecting homes and charging money for it.

That would be an ASHI thing to do.

Here, we do not try to discourage those who need to ask such questions.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by jbushart

That would be an ASHI thing to do.

Here, we do not try to discourage those who need to ask such questions.

Maybe you should, to a certain extent. The "come one, come all, and inspect away no matter how little you know" heralding puzzles me. A uneducated inspector diminishes the NACHI brand and doesn't provide the same level of value to the customer than an educated one will. After all, we're talking about pretty fundamental stuff here, not some exotic niche topic. Asking questions should certainly not be discouraged, but charging money for what basically amounts to your knowledge and ability to locate defects and hazards is another thing entirely. I know that doesn't do much for bringing in the widest possible group of inspector candidates to NACHI's doorstep, but at some point there focus should change from filling to ranks to customer service.

[Greg Fretwell]

Just a little tie breaker on the surge thing. I do have a lot of experience with it (IBM physical planning rep in SW Florida). Certainly if you just have one piece of equipment with no ground connection like a stereo the MOVs across the line and neutral will dissipate most of the transients. An inductive componant (the part that makes good surge protectors heavy) will help a lot.
Where that grounded receptacle starts coming in is when you have multiple connections to your equipment. Most surge damage is caused by the difference between the phone line or CATV cable and the power. If the phone line is grounded and the PC the modem is plugged into isn't you are going to reconcile that difference through your system board or serial port.
That is also why you really want to stop this at the panel with a panel protector and be sure all of your other services are using the same electrode system as the power. The point of use protector is really just to stop smaller transients that get generated between the DMarks, service panel and the other end of the branch circuit. This is somewhat the reciprical of voltage drop.

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by dnasser

I inpsected a house built in 1953, the recectacles were three prong,
but they all tested open ground.....would this be because back then the
houses were wired with two wires ? no ground wire.


if so how should I write it up.....


David

David
Recommend further evaluation by a certified electrician. 3-hole receptacles on 2-wire circuits are not correct, give home occupants a false sense of safety which they do not have! Their delicate electronics are not well protected, either, even with a surge protector.
The return to 2-hole polarized receptacles eliminates the doubt, but solves not the problem. An upgrade to grounded outlets is far better. Insurance cost goes down and property value goes up with an electrical upgrade, starting with a new service panel. From there, grounded outlets in the kitchen and bath are a minimum upgrade. The illustration shows how a GFCI can help a bit. Keep asking and learning.

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I'm mildly shocked that nobody has expressed concern that the person who wrote the above information appears to be actively inspecting homes and charging money for it.

Marc,

We're a kinder, gentler group, as you know.
We let the circumcision wounds heal before we go in for the castration, one stone at a time.

Trial by fire so to speak.

BTW do you think the receptacles were changed out at some point in time? Labels?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by badair

BTW do you think the receptacles were changed out at some point in time? Labels?

They would have had to have been, given the stated age of the dwelling.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Maybe you should, to a certain extent. The "come one, come all, and inspect away no matter how little you know" heralding puzzles me. A uneducated inspector diminishes the NACHI brand and doesn't provide the same level of value to the customer than an educated one will. After all, we're talking about pretty fundamental stuff here, not some exotic niche topic. Asking questions should certainly not be discouraged, but charging money for what basically amounts to your knowledge and ability to locate defects and hazards is another thing entirely. I know that doesn't do much for bringing in the widest possible group of inspector candidates to NACHI's doorstep, but at some point there focus should change from filling to ranks to customer service.

This is probably why, Marc, you would not be a good home inspector and should stick to your own line of work.

You see, while you have luxury of knowing and memorizing one book (the NEC) and knowing the fundamentals and operation of one system (the electrical), a home inspector requires much more.

You have immediately drawn a conclusion from one single question that a person has asked and passed judgment on his abilities to inspect and evaluate the conditions of a roof, plumbing system, foundation, building interior and exterior, HVAC and grading.

Perhaps his 30 years as a plumber does not help him in the electrical systems as much as your 30 years in electrical systems, but his value to the industry can certainly not be judged from one question.

Please do not play "Joe Tedesco", here, and discourage anyone from seeking knowledge that they do not have out of fear of being criticized.

To some of you, this message board represents your means of impressing one another with your expertise. Nothing wrong with that, but don't forget that it is also a source for people to learn and to become better home inspectors.

[rbrady]

One final thought:

Manufacturers will not spend a fraction of a penny if they do not have to.
If the manufacturer uses a 3-prong plug, it is for a reason. They expect it to be plugged into a grounded receptacle.

Conversely, if the appliance has a 2-prong plug (80+% of appliances outside the kitchen) a 3-prong receptacle does not offer any advantage to the appliance (the box/screw being grounded offers some shock protection at the cover screw).

Just because the NEC says a GFCI receptacle is OK does not mean I am obliged to recommend the use of a GFCI receptacle in the place of a grounded receptacle.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by rbrady

One final thought:

Manufacturers will not spend a fraction of a penny if they do not have to.
If the manufacturer uses a 3-prong plug, it is for a reason. They expect it to be plugged into a grounded receptacle.

Conversely, if the appliance has a 2-prong plug (80+% of appliances outside the kitchen) a 3-prong plug does not offer any advantage to the appliance (the box/screw being grounded offers some shock protection at the cover screw).

Just because the NEC says a GFCI receptacle is OK does not mean I am obliged to recommend the use of a GFCI receptacle in the place of a grounded receptacle.

Perhaps...but you must also be careful not to put out incorrect or false information in your reports.

Your statement that GFCIs must be grounded in order to work is incorrect....and, in the cases of certain areas of the home (kitchen counters, bathrooms, etc) you are INDEED "obliged" to recommend the use of a GFCI receptacle in the place of a grounded receptacle.

[rbrady]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Your statement that GFCIs must be grounded in order to work is incorrect....and, in the cases of certain areas of the home (kitchen counters, bathrooms, etc) you are INDEED "obliged" to recommend the use of a GFCI receptacle in the place of a grounded receptacle.

I have NEVER stated that GFCI's must be grounded to work. I said that surge protectors need to be grounded to work. I should have said that surge protectors need to be grounded to work effectively.

I do indeed recommend use of GFCI protection at kitchen counters, bathrooms, etc. - grounded or not.

BTW - GFCI's do not reduce the risk of electrical shock. They only reduce the risk of electrocution.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by rbrady

I have NEVER stated that GFCI's must be grounded to work. I said that surge protectors need to be grounded to work. I should have said that surge protectors need to be grounded to work effectively.

Misread it. Sorry.

[David Nasser]

Wow...we have really gotten technical, thanks for the
info.

David