Is an FPE Stab-Lok defective by definition?

[Scott F. Coslett]

I know one thing for certain....... I would never do one of those 'inspections'. What is the definition of 'fail'??

[William Thacker]

Originally Posted by scoslett

I know one thing for certain....... I would never do one of those 'inspections'. What is the definition of 'fail'??

The version of the form has been superceded by a newer rev. Scott.

It has to be completed by a licensed home inspector. I don't see a reason to turn away work because of an ambiguous form. It is based on your professional opinion.

I would err on the side of caution and mark it as fail on the old form or use section G on the new form and say it was a readily observable problem that in the inspector’s opinion represents an immediate threat to the health or safety of occupant? However, immediate may not be the case. But if a new tenant overloaded a circuit right after moving in and the tragic result of breaker failure caused a fire, I would be inconsolable because in reality it may only be a "potential latent defect".

I would not have one in my garden shed if it were free.

I was trying to solicit opinions on how other inspectors would mark the form rather than create the best narrative for a home inspection. Although those discussions are informative as well. A good narrative is always appreciated.

Best Wishes

[Scott F. Coslett]

Originally Posted by wthacker

......... I don't see a reason to turn away work because of an ambiguous form. It is based on your professional opinion.

Good luck, William...

Too much ambiguity for me.

[Russell J. Hensel]

I think calling out the breakers just for the sake of calling them out is not fair. They have been problematic...but they have NEVER been recalled. So who is to say the panel I am presently looking at is problematic? If there is a fault I call it out, if there is NOT a fault I don't call it out.

If you start mentioning PROBABLY items that could fail or have failed in the past but have not been recalled where does it stop? Did you know Kenmore Elite brand refrigerators are recalled?.....Some SQUARE D breakers are recalled......Do you have to remember and state ALL of this?......I try to keep up with it the best I can...But I disagree with calling an item out because it has had problems in the past and leave it up to the CPSC to make the call.........Once again I report what I see and can prove..

[jkogel]

Cross out problem. write "issue, condition or item", cross out immediate, write "latent". Then specify "FPE panel". Just a suggestion.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

[William Thacker]

Originally Posted by rhensel

I think calling out the breakers just for the sake of calling them out is not fair. They have been problematic...but they have NEVER been recalled. So who is to say the panel I am presently looking at is problematic? If there is a fault I call it out, if there is NOT a fault I don't call it out.

If you start mentioning PROBABLY items that could fail or have failed in the past but have not been recalled where does it stop? Did you know Kenmore Elite brand refrigerators are recalled?.....Some SQUARE D breakers are recalled......Do you have to remember and state ALL of this?......I try to keep up with it the best I can...But I disagree with calling an item out because it has had problems in the past and leave it up to the CPSC to make the call.........Once again I report what I see and can prove..

I survived a house fire when I was 15. The insulation of a conductor inside a bx cable sloughed off and began to arc against the conduit. This was way before the arc fault breaker. The name brand circuit breaker failed to trip and burned a hole through the floor board. My bed was above that floor board. I awoke for no apparent earthly reason around 6am the day after Christmas. My pillow was ablaze and my first instinct was to snuff it using my hands. The polyester pillow melted into my skin. I hopped out of bed just as it went up in complete flames.

So I am a bit more sensitive to the issue than someone without a similar experience. Besides, it is my opinion. By definition, it can't be wrong, different perhaps, but not wrong.

And again, it is not a report. It is a checklist. And yes, that panel is dangerous. You can't prove to me otherwise.

[ecolclasure]

check yes on the third line and state that the panel in question is known for its high failure rate and that you suggest that they have a qualified electrician inspect it

[Eldon E. Holliday, Jr.]

Thread Drift Warning! Russell I took note of your comments because a while back an inspector from your fine state wanted to sell me "Coaching" advice. I looked up his website and pulled up a sample report. The report showed a photo of a FP S/B panel, no mention was made at all. I began to doubt how good his "Coaching" advice could be.

[Russel Ray]

Originally Posted by rhensel

I think calling out the breakers just for the sake of calling them out is not fair. They have been problematic...but they have NEVER been recalled.

They were never recalled because the company was already out of business from the billions of dollars of lawsuits already filed against it. Proper research usually takes much longer than filing a lawsuit.

Recalls are not issued against companies no longer in business, only safety concerns at that point. And if a recall is issued, and then the company goes out of business, the CPSC will often update the recall to let people know that there no longer is any recourse. Occasionally, the recall agreement between the CPSC and the company provides for an artificial deadline, too. Once the deadline has passed, the CPSC will also update the original recall notice.

[George Szontagh]

There is much back-and-forth about FPE stab-lok in both directions. I generally report as a deficiency item.

Be aware that they are still being made in Canada, to their UL-equivalent standards, and still readily available.....

http://www.schneider-electric.ca/www...-lok/index.htm

[Michael J. Merino]

I came across and FPE stab-lok today, and I will recommend in the same manner as Jeff Pope.

I know there has not been a USA recall, but there was a Canadian recall in 1997 for these panels under the name of Federal Pioneer. http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/schneider.htm They use the words "recall" and "warranty alert". I do not know if it is a full blown recall, but it seems that there is a recall of some type by a government agency. Hopefully I read the article correctly. I guess what I am saying is that we should be specific when stating that there is NO recall of these panels, and state that there is no recall by any USA government agency or by the CPSC.

I just wonder if the panels in Canada differ enough that the recall does not affect panels manufactured for the USA.

[Bob Elliott]

Since I just had a Union Electrician tell me it is a good idea to replace them every time ,I feel justified.

[Bruce Thompson]

Resurrecting this old thread:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...r.29b017e.html