International Association of Certified Home Inspectors
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| Electrical Inspections Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes receptacles, panels, wiring, etc. |
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#1
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A ufer ground is a copper grounding electrode connected to steel rebar encased in concrete. Since concrete is porous and moisture can diffuse through it, isn't it possible that over time, galvanic corrosion can destroy the electrical connection between copper and steel, leaving the home without a grounding electrode?
Kenton Shepard, InterNACHI member # 04082383 Certified Master Inspector (CMI) InterNACHI Director of International Development Director of Green Building EXPERT WITNESS SERVICE Conventional and Log homes (303) 717-8940
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| Need a home inspection in Virginia? Check out InterNACHI's listing of Virginia certified home inspectors. Or, find a home inspector anywhere in the world with our inspection search engine. |
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#2
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Please Note:
Robert Meier is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Good question. I would think that under normal conditions the rebar will last a very long time. If it didn't then there is a chance that the footing itself may become compromised. Since the NEC does not address this directly I would guess that it really isn't an issue. If you're referring to the connection point itself the connector should be listed for the conditions and materials that it is connecting.
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#3
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A dielectric union electrically isolates the two materials, so that wouldn't work. I found the same question online in a few places, but no good answer.
Kenton Shepard, InterNACHI member # 04082383 Certified Master Inspector (CMI) InterNACHI Director of International Development Director of Green Building EXPERT WITNESS SERVICE Conventional and Log homes (303) 717-8940
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#4
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Kenton, does this help?
The "Ufer" Ground The term "Ufer" grounding is named after a consultant working for the US Army during World War II. The technique Mr. Ufer came up with was necessary because the site needing grounding had no underground water table and little rainfall. The desert site was a series of bomb storage vaults in the area of Flagstaff, Arizona. The principle of the Ufer ground is simple, it is very effective and inexpensive to install during new construction. The Ufer ground takes advantage of concrete’s properties to good advantage. Concrete absorbs moisture quickly and looses moisture very slowly. The mineral properties of concrete (lime and others) and their inherent pH means concrete has a supply of ions to conduct current. The soil around concrete becomes "doped" by the concrete, as a result, the pH of the soil rises and reduces what would normally be 1000 ohm meter soil conditions (hard to get a good ground). The moisture present, (concrete gives up moisture very slowly), in combination with the "doped" soil, make a good conductor for electrical energy or lightning currents. Ufer techniques are used in building footers, concrete floors, radio and television towers, tower guy wire anchors, light poles, etc. Copper wire does not function well as a "Ufer" ground due to the pH factor of concrete (+7pH is common). The use of steel reinforcement as a "Ufer" ground works well and concrete does not chip or flake as has been found with copper. The use of copper wire tied to the reinforcement rods outside the concrete shows none of these problems. The minimum rebar necessary to avoid concrete problems depends on:
Rebar Diameter In InchesSurge Amperes Per Foot.3753400.5004500.6255500.75064001.0008150 Mr. Ufer did not know what he had found until he experimented with various lengths of wire in concrete. Today’s informed engineer benefits from Mr. Ufer’s discovery and will tie in the bars of steel reinforcement in a building or other foundation to the building electrical ground. When bonded to the electrical ground, building steel, etc., the buildings reinforced floor and foundation become part of the building grounding system. The result is a much improved grounding system with a very low overall resistance to earth reference. LEED Green Associates InachiAwardsPortal: Inachi US Member of the Year Award 2009 |
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#5
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Thanks Marcel. It looks like the answer is preventing moisture from reaching the point at which the two dissimilar metals are in contact. Grease would deteriorate after a while, I'm thinking. And anyway, in an existing installation there would be no way to tell what had been done.
Kenton Shepard, InterNACHI member # 04082383 Certified Master Inspector (CMI) InterNACHI Director of International Development Director of Green Building EXPERT WITNESS SERVICE Conventional and Log homes (303) 717-8940
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#6
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Please Note:
Robert Meier is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Are you thinking that the copper to steel rebar connection will go bad? The connector is listed for the materials that it's connected to so under normal conditions it should not corrode.
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#7
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Is that a ceramic connector?
Kenton Shepard, InterNACHI member # 04082383 Certified Master Inspector (CMI) InterNACHI Director of International Development Director of Green Building EXPERT WITNESS SERVICE Conventional and Log homes (303) 717-8940
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#8
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For some reason Kenton, I prefer this method. Used for years in lieu of the Ufer Ground.
Cadweld to the steel. I have heard claims that grounds rods only last 20 years, but I am not convinced. I have worked on projects twice that and never heard of a problem. ![]() ![]() LEED Green Associates InachiAwardsPortal: Inachi US Member of the Year Award 2009 |
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#9
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Please Note:
Robert Meier is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
I'm guessing that they're made of bronze.
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#10
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LEED Green Associates InachiAwardsPortal: Inachi US Member of the Year Award 2009 |
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#11
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many are bronze alloy
here's a few from one mfr. but tie wire seems to be the norm around here along with improper placement in the footer, written up about 99% of the time ADAIR INSPECTION 972-487-5634 Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography TREC # 4563 EDI: EIFS-MA TX # 39 2008 US Member of the Year life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes accept the good |
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#12
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If the rebar corrodes enough to lose the connection, you've got bigger problems than you realize.
Contrary to popular belief, properly encased rebar does not corrode. It the event that it does, it will be the result of cracks in the concrete, not the porous nature of the material. I have been on projects where we've removed reinforced concrete that was near 100 years old. The rebar was just as shiny as it was on the day it was placed. And in case you didn't know, 100 year old rebar is square, not round. IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE ® Jeff PopeJPI Home Inspection Service Santa Clarita CA (661) 212-0738 Santa Clarita Home Inspection http://www.MyInspector.net |
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#13
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LEED Green Associates InachiAwardsPortal: Inachi US Member of the Year Award 2009 |
| Need a home inspection in Virginia? Check out InterNACHI's listing of Virginia certified home inspectors. Or, find a home inspector anywhere in the world with our inspection search engine. |
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#14
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Never seen a Ufer ground down here. But I often see ground rods that have been covered by concrete patios or driveways. Similarily, often a ground rod is inaccessible beneath a deck (a code violation). I call it out as uninspectable and refer it to an electrician. Personally, I wouldn't trust any grounding system I couldn't see and didn't observe with my own two eyes being installed.
“The things that will destroy America are peace at any price, prosperity at any cost, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.” Theodore Roosevelt Joe Funderburk, CMI Alpha & Omega Home Inspections, LLC Inspecting Upstate SC & Charlotte Metro, NC NACHI ID: NACHI05120170 www.aohomeinspection.com |
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#15
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Marcel is right on que. Around here in New construction if you aregoing to run your ground in the concrete it must be cadwelded to the footing, or foundation rebar.
Jim Maryland Home Inspection Services Inc. www.MarylandHomeInspectionServices.com State of Maryland License# 31141 Virginia License#3380 000468 National Association Of Certified Home Inspectors ID: NACHI10101807 International Association of Certified Indoor Air Consultants (IAC2). Certification # IAC2-02-0919 Maryland Home Inspectors In Gaithersburg, Rockville, Germantown, Bethesda, Potomac, Also All of Northern Virginia and Washington, D.C. |
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