garage panel sheetrock

[brian winkle]

Yes Bruce 320.23A says cables run across the face of floor joists or across the face of rafters within 7 feet of the floor must be protected, in attics with permanent stairs or ladders. If there is no permanent stair or ladder then it says protection is only required within 6 feet of the edge of the scuttle hole. Maybe that's where the mysterious 7 foot rule grew from.

[David P. Valley]

Originally Posted by bking

I believe there is a code about not having exposed wiring within 6 or 7 feet of attic stairs or scuttles.

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[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by brian winkle

Originally Posted by brian winkle

It has to be for protection of the romexes leaving the panel.

Originally Posted by brian winkle

rakes, shovels, bikes, saws, ladders, dogs, whatever you keep in the garage.

Originally Posted by brian winkle

A panel mounted to the studs with no sheetrock around it would have exposed home runs. Around here it would fail a final inspection, the conductors at that height would be considered subject to damage. Also, I am certain the IRC, which is used by our local building inspectors, prohibits exposed Romex less than 7 feet from the floor.

This would be saying that the code has allowances to allow code violations.

The area 36 inches in front and 30 inches side to side reaching to a height of six feet above or to the structural ceiling belongs to the electrical equipment. Nothing is allowed in this space unless it belongs to the electrical equipment or is for fire protection.

To say that the cables coming out to the panel needs protection would be the same as saying that the clearances required in 110 will be allowed to be violated.

This is far from the truth. The required clearance is protection in and of itself. No other protection is needed for these cables.

To store items such as rakes, shovels, bikes, saws, ladders, dogs, whatever you keep in the garage in front of, under or over the panel would be a violation of the required work space.
Yes I know that these items are placed in the panel area and there is no way to stop a home owner from storing these items there but we must remember that there is no way to stop a home owner from using gutter nails to hang a picture on the wall either.

The codes are not about what “might happen” but instead they are about safety. The rule to keep the space around a panel clear and free is enough to afford protection of the cables leaving the panel.
To make a requirement to protect these cables by covering them with some sort of wall board would negate the rule to have the clear space.

Personally the danger of having a panel buried behind a bunch of junk if a bigger danger than the danger of having a cable damaged by the stuff being stored.
I have seen many times where a washing machine was in a basement and the cables was being used to hold cloths from a coat hanger. Cables are for the most part pretty tough and normal bumps and pull rarely do damage. On the other hand in the event of a failure in a device or a piece of equipment and the panel buried behind a bunch of junk stored could lead to some pretty bad damage or even death.

[Greg Fretwell]

Mike I agree that codes don't prevent people from doing stupid things but it seems we are starting to write as much protection in the code as NEMA can come up with. How else can you explain the "tamper proof receptacle" provision in the 08?Like I said up thread a few days ago, physical protection of Romex in unfinished spaces seems to be a local AHJ call. I have seen it go both ways.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

or is for fire protection.

Lets also remember that even if it IS for fire protection like a sprinkler system..it can't be within that space either...it could SPRAY water into the space but the dedicated space is just that...dedicated.

[brian winkle]

Mike, I agree with you that we can't be building a lot of "what if's" into our installations, unfortunately many of our municipal inspectors require us to.

In addition, I see some of the recent (and not so recent) code changes as preparing for "what if's", like coloring a switch leg black, or putting a multiwire circuit on a tied breaker. To me this is preparing our installations in case a non qualified person should decide to work on them.

I never considered exposed Romex a problem. I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling pointing it out. I do however, get a warm fuzzy feeling charging $95.00 per hour to fix it!

[Paul W. Abernathy]

garage panel sheetrock 9/19/07 7:05 PM wronge - Amazing what people just dont know....dedicated space is exactly that dedicated.... Ok....for the PINHEAD who said the fire system CAN be in the dedicated space....read your code. Also nothing at all wrong about the spray going over into the dedicated space...

Oh..and PS...learn to spell WRONG........not wronge.....moron !

(1) Indoor.

Indoor installations shall comply with
110.26(F)(1)(a) through (F)(1)(d).
(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the
width and depth of the equipment and extending from the
floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to
the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated
to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection
apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical
installation shall be located in this zone.

Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall
be permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.

(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated
space required by 110.26(F)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain
foreign systems, provided protection is installed to
avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation,
leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.
(c) Sprinkler Protection. Sprinkler protection shall be
permitted for the dedicated space where the piping complies
with this section.
(d) Suspended Ceilings. A dropped, suspended, or similar
ceiling that does not add strength to the building structure
shall not be considered a structural ceiling.

The piping is foreign to the dedicated space...but it can afford the protection by allowing the spray to extend into the space....READ the CODE.......

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by brian winkle

Also, I am certain the IRC, which is used by our local building inspectors, prohibits exposed Romex less than 7 feet from the floor.

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Then you area also certainly wrong. No such language exists in the IRC.

While there are no specific height restrictions for areas like garages and basements, IRC E3701.4 & E3702.3.2 (as well as NEC 334.15) do not permit sheathed cable (Romex) to be run exposed where "subject to physical damage".

It's a vauge provision subject to local interpretation. For wiring in areas like garages and basements many AHJ's interpret that to mean within a certain distance to the floor ... and some interpret that to mean any exposd wiring on those walls. Perhaps it's interpreted as 7 feet from the floor in your area, indirectly from 334.23/320.23 for accessible attics.

Your local mileage may vary ...

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by roconnor

While there are no specific height restrictions for areas like garages and basements, IRC E3701.4 & E3702.3.2 (as well as NEC 334.15) do not permit sheathed cable (Romex) to be run exposed where "subject to physical damage".

In both the IRC 3305.3 and the NEC 110.26(F) mandate that the panel be located in dedicated spaces and protected from damage. The IRC goes on to say in 3305.4 that the required working space shall not be designated for storage.

If I was an inspector writing up a safety report I would call out the items being stored in this dedicated space instead of trying to point out how someone could be in violation of the codes and need future protection.

The fact that both codes require a clear space from the finish floor to a height of 72 inches above or the finished ceiling which ever is lower that is 30 inches wide by 36 inches deep this area is protected my the code itself.
Any cable entering from directly above or below the panel would be protected by these rules and no future protection would be required.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by bking

The question is not about working space ... Simply sheetrock around garage panels for fireblocking or cable protection issues.

If the panel is on an exterior wall (not a common house wall), then the only thing that comes to mind is protection of cables.

JMO

[Bruce A. King]

I agree, many builders want to prevent homeowner tampering or damage.

Expecting homeowners to keep items clear of electrical panels and cables is extremely unrealistic.

Also if they add a circuit the warranty guy could probably notice sheetrock repairs etc.

Another item now is where they seal off attic scuttles to keep homeowners and stored items out of the attic area.