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  #1  
Old 2/7/08, 9:33 PM
cgoyette cgoyette is offline
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Default gas line not bonded/grounded

There is no Bond/ground on the gas line in this home.

What the IRC or NEC code# on this?


The 220 range oven was drop from teh build and a 120v gas cook top was installed. Make wonder if it is bonded anywhere.


SLAB home so no crawlspace to see if it was done in a hidden areas.

thoughts please.

Thanks
Curt
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Last edited by cgoyette; 2/7/08 at 9:41 PM..
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  #2  
Old 2/7/08, 9:45 PM
Michael R. Boyett's Avatar
Michael R. Boyett Michael R. Boyett is online now
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

2003 IRC E3509.7 Bonding other metal piping. Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping systems, including gas piping, capable of becoming energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where sufficient size, or to one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table E3808.12 using the rating of the circuit capable of energizing the piping. The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is capable of energizing the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.
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  #3  
Old 2/7/08, 9:45 PM
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Bruce A. King Bruce A. King is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

The bonding is achieved through the gas valve and cabinet metal to the EGC (green wire spliced to the copper) inside the furnace.


If no furnace or equipment is present to allow for a mechanical bond to the EGC then it is incorrect.


Starting in Sept. 2007, many AHJ's around here require a clamp and solid #6 copper running to the main existing grounding electrode if CSST is used.
The black coated CSST (counterstrike) is exempt from this additional bonding.



B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
Serving Charlotte NC area and Rock Hill SC areas.
CMI Certified Master Inspector and Independent
License NC2449 and SC1597
704 301-3207



"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought."
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Old 2/7/08, 9:49 PM
cgoyette cgoyette is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by bking
The bonding is achieved through the gas valve and cabinet metal to the EGC (green wire spliced to the copper) inside the furnace.


If no furnace or equipment is present to allow for a mechanical bond to the EGC then it is incorrect.


Starting in Sept. 2007, many AHJ's around here require a clamp and solid #6 copper running to the main existing grounding electrode if CSST is used.
The black coated CSST (counterstrike) is exempt from this additional bonding.
Thats what I am use to seeing.

In this case I dont see any bonding at the gas cook top. There is NO furnance (heat pumps)

CSST I can find no Bonding of either.


What would be the fix?

Curt
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  #5  
Old 2/7/08, 9:51 PM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgoyette
What would be the fix?
Let the electrician figure that one out.
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  #6  
Old 2/7/08, 9:53 PM
cgoyette cgoyette is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Let the electrician figure that one out.
if you only knew my day WITH the electrician....son of electrician I should say.

Whats the fix anyone?

Curt
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  #7  
Old 2/7/08, 9:56 PM
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

You can't clamp anything onto the CSST (that I know of yet)

The cooktop should have the EGC connected to the metal frame which in turn connects to the gas line. This is just not visible and makes our job hard or actually easy in this case, just report no bonding visible as is typical and recommend a safety upgrade.

Note: a seperate/new ground rod placed by the gas meter and bonded to the gas pipe is not correct. It has to be what they call equipotential, which means connected to the main electrical GEC or ground rod.



B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
Serving Charlotte NC area and Rock Hill SC areas.
CMI Certified Master Inspector and Independent
License NC2449 and SC1597
704 301-3207



"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought."
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Old 2/7/08, 10:00 PM
cgoyette cgoyette is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by bking
You can't clamp anything onto the CSST (that I know of yet)

The cooktop should have the EGC connected to the metal frame which in turn connects to the gas line. This is just not visible and makes our job hard or actually easy in this case, just report no bonding visible as is typical and recommend a safety upgrade.

Note: a seperate/new ground rod placed by the gas meter and bonded to the gas pipe is not correct. It has to be what they call equipotential, which means connected to the main electrical GEC or ground rod.

In this case I may be in luck....the main ground rod is about 5 feet away. Could this be just connected here and solve this issue?

I know what I am going to say but I want to know what is the right answer on this.

Curt
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Old 2/7/08, 10:06 PM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

I really wasn't trying to be flip about this. I always thought you guys were not supposed to give recommendations, only call out the issues.
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Old 2/7/08, 10:08 PM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

The answer to your question is in the IRC quote above:

"The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is capable of energizing the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means."

This should be all you need to know, unless a local ammendment requires an external bond.
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  #11  
Old 2/7/08, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgoyette
Whats the fix anyone?
There is nothing to fix, in this case.
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  #12  
Old 2/7/08, 10:21 PM
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Bruce A. King Bruce A. King is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Since we are not required to dismantle equipment and verify the bonding is really connected you can't say there is a problem, unless of course it is a new house that falls under a new code amendment that requires supplemental bonding like we have in Mecklenburg county NC and Lancaster county SC. Don't think York county SC has made any changes for CSST.



B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
Serving Charlotte NC area and Rock Hill SC areas.
CMI Certified Master Inspector and Independent
License NC2449 and SC1597
704 301-3207



"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought."
- Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937
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  #13  
Old 2/7/08, 10:24 PM
cgoyette cgoyette is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by bking
Since we are not required to dismantle equipment and verify the bonding is really connected you can't say there is a problem, unless of course it is a new house that falls under a new code amendment that requires supplemental bonding like we have in Mecklenburg county NC and Lancaster county SC. Don't think York county SC has made any changes for CSST.
Its new construction and the csst has no bonding that I can find.

Curt
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  #14  
Old 2/8/08, 1:17 AM
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Quote:
Originally Posted by bking
The bonding is achieved through the gas valve and cabinet metal to the EGC (green wire spliced to the copper) inside the furnace.


If no furnace or equipment is present to allow for a mechanical bond to the EGC then it is incorrect.


Starting in Sept. 2007, many AHJ's around here require a clamp and solid #6 copper running to the main existing grounding electrode if CSST is used.
The black coated CSST (counterstrike) is exempt from this additional bonding.
Gas water heater be the same????
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  #15  
Old 2/8/08, 8:37 AM
Bruce A. King's Avatar
Bruce A. King Bruce A. King is offline
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Default Re: gas line not bonded/grounded

Nope, the gas water heater has no branch circuit EGC so it depends on the little wirenut that may be loose or forgotten inside the furnace or oven power connection box for its bonding.

This is why new codes are emerging for this, it was just a poor equipotential installation before the changes.


In places that require the bonding clamp at the power meter, make sure they scraped off the heavy gray paint that is used in many cases before clamping, or the connection could be useless.
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B.A. King Home Inspections, LLC
www.BAKingHomeInspections.com
Serving Charlotte NC area and Rock Hill SC areas.
CMI Certified Master Inspector and Independent
License NC2449 and SC1597
704 301-3207



"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought."
- Albert Szent-Gyvrgyi, Nobel Prize for Medicine 1937
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