gfci in orange county required in 1987

[Jeff Jensen]

I inspected a 1987 residence in wedgefield orlando orange county Florida. The exterior, bathrooms, and kitchen outlets did not have GCFI protection, therefore in my report I mandated GFCI receptacles be added per requirements such as exterior outlets be protected as of 1971 and bathroom outlets be protected as of 1975 and kitchens be protected as of 1987. I received these dates at a FABI conference some years ago. I have recieved an email copied to me from a GC in Naples Florida stating that the electrical for the residence was installed according to NEC requirements which state that GFCI protection was not required in the county stated above in 1987, and that I should do due diligence before mandating requirements. So my question is where do I find or does someone have the 1987 electrical requirements for Orange county Florida? (So I can do due diligence) or Can some one direct me to a webpage or telephone number where I can find the answer?

Jeff Jensen
Happy Home Inspection

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jjensen3

I inspected a 1987 residence in wedgefield orlando orange county Florida. The exterior, bathrooms, and kitchen outlets did not have GCFI protection, therefore in my report I mandated GFCI receptacles be added per requirements such as exterior outlets be protected as of 1971 and bathroom outlets be protected as of 1975 and kitchens be protected as of 1987. I received these dates at a FABI conference some years ago. I have recieved an email copied to me from a GC in Naples Florida stating that the electrical for the residence was installed according to NEC requirements which state that GFCI protection was not required in the county stated above in 1987, and that I should do due diligence before mandating requirements. So my question is where do I find or does someone have the 1987 electrical requirements for Orange county Florida? (So I can do due diligence) or Can some one direct me to a webpage or telephone number where I can find the answer?

Jeff Jensen
Happy Home Inspection

Unless you are doing a code inspection as an AHJ, the advice that you give to your client is based upon the present condition and its relative safety factor. It needs a GFCI - today - no matter when the local politicians may have decided to require it. Your inspection report should be written accordingly.

Explain that to the GC. He needs to be informed.

[Jeff Jensen]

Thank you for your suggestion. My client does know that the safety feature is highly recommended. My client is using my report to ask the seller to do the repairs. The seller does not want to do the repairs and had this GC do some investigation. That is why I am trying to find some facts as well to reply back as to if my paperwork from another inspector is accurate or not. Are the dates accurate for all of Florida or is there a possibility that GFCI outlets were not required until after 1990?

[Jeffrey Moore]

Cities usually adopt new code requirements some time after they are published. To determine what was in place in the city of the inspection you need to contact the city and they should be able to tell you what code book year was in effect when the house was built. This can be a real PIA. Just because a new revision comes out doesn't mean that the city adopts that revision immediately.
Good luck in your search

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by jjensen3

My client is using my report to ask the seller to do the repairs. The seller does not want to do the repairs and had this GC do some investigation.

If your client wants the repairs ... the opinion of some contractor the seller hired for advice is totally meaningless. So are the dates in which a code was enacted.

Tell your client that the report points out a legitimate safety concern that exists, today, and leave it at that. Providing him with useless dates ... even going through the process of researching them ... validates the moronic argument of a lazy contractor, IMO.

[Robert J. OConnor]

Originally Posted by jjensen3

I inspected a 1987 residence in wedgefield orlando orange county Florida. The exterior, bathrooms, and kitchen outlets did not have GCFI protection, therefore in my report I mandated GFCI receptacles be added ...

Pretty strong wording for a home inspection. HI's typically would not "mandate" requirements because of the sticky situation you encountered. However you can note that a lack of GFCI protection in those areas is a safety hazard in your opinion, and recommend an upgrade for your clients safety. What your client does with that opinion and recommendation is their call.

JMO & 2-Nickels ...

[Jeff Jensen]

Thank you for your posts. I did contact the Master electrician for Orange county Florida and found that the GFCI NEC requirements for 1987 would have been exterior, Bathroom, and garages. I also found out that the GC in Naples was given inaccurate information which he based his replies to me. Once again thank you for assistance and guidance.

Jeff Jensen
happy Home Inspection

[John M. Zirzow]

This is what I use for GFCI - No Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) protection of home electrical outlets was provided in the home at the time of inspection. Although GFCI protection may not have been required at the time the home was built, for safety reasons, consider upgrading the electrical system to include GFCI protection at the following locations:
•　　　Bathrooms
•　　　Outside
•　　　Garages
•　　　Crawlspace (at or below grade)
•　　　Unfinished basements
•　　　Kitchens
•　　　Laundry rooms
•　　　Within 6 feet of all plumbing fixtures

•　　　Boathouses

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by jzirzow

This is what I use for GFCI - No Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI) protection of home electrical outlets was provided in the home at the time of inspection. Although GFCI protection may not have been required at the time the home was built, for safety reasons, consider upgrading the electrical system to include GFCI protection at the following locations:
•　　　Bathrooms
•　　　Outside
•　　　Garages
•　　　Crawlspace (at or below grade)
•　　　Unfinished basements
•　　　Kitchens
•　　　Laundry rooms
•　　　Within 6 feet of all plumbing fixtures

•　　　Boathouses

That's a nice list of suggestions. A few things, according to the NEC, not all kitchen receptacles require GFCI protection, only the ones that serve the counter top are required to have GFCI protection. Laundry rooms only require GFCI protection for a receptacle within 6' of a laundry sink.

[Tim Spargo]

Good point Robert. I can't tell you how many times I've found the microwave, range and fridge on a GFCI.

And yes.. the washing machines as well.

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by tspargo

Good point Robert. I can't tell you how many times I've found the microwave, range and fridge on a GFCI.

And yes.. the washing machines as well.

While the protection is not required, it can be installed. There should not be an issue installing any of those appliances on a GFI protected circuit.

[Tim Spargo]

agreed. although, the obvious concern of nuisance tripping on fridges exists.

My point was when I see GFCI's in *additional* places.. I've often wondered if the installer was ill-informed.

[Jim Port]

Originally Posted by tspargo

agreed. although, the obvious concern of nuisance tripping on fridges exists.

My point was when I see GFCI's in *additional* places.. I've often wondered if the installer was ill-informed.

It is not nuisance tripping. It is signaling that a problem exists and the appliance needs to be repaired or replaced. Remember the GFI is for life safety, not a frig of food.

Why would you think exceeding the code minimum would make someone ill-informed?