GFCI under Kitchen Sink????

[Rick Maday]

Originally Posted by relliott

Thats why I always start phrases in my reports with the words recommend and suggest.

I make exceptions only for State code on smoke and carbon monoxide detectors which requires them with in 15 feet of bedrooms in my area though I use that only to declare that I recommend them in bedrooms.

AHJ's do not like competition they say.

That's actually State Law for CO and smoke alarms.

[relliott]

Originally Posted by rmaday

That's actually State Law fot CO alarms. Not sure if the smokes are written into law.

Smoke was first with Co added 2006 Jan 1st.

My point was that it is clear cut.(on smoke,though notice the slight loophole with Co)

Safety is always big.

Section 20. Exemptions. The following residential units shall not require carbon monoxide detectors:
(1) A residential unit in a building that: (i) does not rely on combustion of fossil fuel for heat, ventilation, or hot water; (ii) is not connected in any way to a garage; and (iii) is not sufficiently close to any ventilated source of carbon monoxide, as determined by the local building commissioner, to receive carbon monoxide from that source.

[Rick Maday]

Originally Posted by relliott

Smoke was first with Co added 2006 Jan 1st.

Section 20. Exemptions. The following residential units shall not require carbon monoxide detectors:
(1) A residential unit in a building that: (i) does not rely on combustion of fossil fuel for heat, ventilation, or hot water; (ii) is not connected in any way to a garage; and (iii) is not sufficiently close to any ventilated source of carbon monoxide, as determined by the local building commissioner, to receive carbon monoxide from that source.

Yeah, edited my previous post.

http://www.state.il.us/osfm/News/Smo...SavesLives.pdf

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by relliott

Why must you draw a line?

It is all opinion ,and that is his.

I asked the question because the claim was made to recommend installation of a GFCI for safety.

We all could recommend improvements for safeties sake but where do you stop?

Yes, it is an opinion and we all have them.

[Rick Maday]

Originally Posted by relliott

.

My point was that it is clear cut.(on smoke,though notice the slight loophole with Co)

Safety is always big.

Agreed.

My point is Law and code are two different standards.

[Rick Maday]

Originally Posted by mlarson

I asked the question because the claim was made to recommend installation of a GFCI for safety.

We all could recommend improvements for safeties sake but where do you stop?

Yes, it is an opinion and we all have them.

GFCI on all receptacles, then. They all have the potential for electrocution.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

So do 3-wire electrical systems Jim.

Where do you draw the line?

Do you also recommend upgrading 2-wire electrical systems for safety reasons?

No, I do not recommend replacing a perfectly operating 2-wire system that is not defective....with a 3-wire system that is not defective. That is silly.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

No, I do not recommend replacing a perfectly operating 2-wire system that is not defective....with a 3-wire system that is not defective. That is silly.

And IMHO about as silly as recommending a GFCI under the sink.

It just seems inconsistent to me.

[relliott]

As far as a 2 wire home goes that might seem ok to you ,but not around here .

Yeah ,Yeah you can run dedicated circuits to computers etc and that's just what everyone in today's modern society wants.(right)

Being forced to have things in one location

Recommend upgrade.
If I do not the next Inspector will when they are selling.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

And IMHO about as silly as recommending a GFCI under the sink.

It just seems inconsistent to me.

Not inconsistent at all. GFCI's are as effective with 2-wire systems and are much less expensive to replace.

I recognize no danger in a non-defective 2-wire electrical system. Neither does the NEC.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Not inconsistent at all. GFCI's are as effective with 2-wire systems and are much less expensive to replace.

Separate issue.
Where do yo draw the line on cost before recommending safety upgrades?

Originally Posted by jbushart

I recognize no danger in a non-defective 2-wire electrical system. Neither does the NEC.

They also see no danger in an outlet under the sink without a GFCI.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

Separate issue.
Where do yo draw the line on cost before recommending safety upgrades?

They also see no danger in an outlet under the sink without a GFCI.

I see a potential danger in an under-the-sink outlet, and recommend accordingly.

I see no potential danger in a perfectly operating 2-wire electrical system.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I see a potential danger in an under-the-sink outlet, and recommend accordingly.

I see no potential danger in a perfectly operating 2-wire electrical system.

If there is no danger in perfectly operating 2-wire system, why are they not permitted in hospitals.

[James H. Bushart]

Originally Posted by mlarson

If there is no danger in perfectly operating 2-wire system, why are they not permitted in hospitals.

Certainly you are not suggesting that the building requirements for hospitals are relevant to one and two family residential dwellings.

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Certainly you are not suggesting that the building requirements for hospitals are relevant to one and two family residential dwellings.

No I am not.

But it is evident that the NEC must considers 2-wire systems a possible hazard in some locations.