Grounded conductors

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

[/left]
Joe I have a class today and tomorrow that will be all day long. As I was getting a shower I was thinking about this statement and wondering how I made it to the panel.

Please help me to better understand just what you are wanting me to think about here.

I have gasoline stored in an air tight room with all doors and windows close because it is so cold outside. Am I right so far?

This room has a light that is controlled from a switch on the wall that I will need to turn on before I get to the panel so I can open her up. Am I still right?

What is giong to happen to all them fumes when I turn on that light and the switch arcs?
I don't guess the panel really matters cause I am gone in a blaze of glory long before then anyway.

Oh yea. The class I have got today is Electrical Code Enforcement Officials. I will be sure to point out the paragraph in Annex A that states that these standards are not part of the code as you have posted here.
Thanks

The lighting is already on the circuit. I sure hope the inspectors understand the rules concerning inspections, I was in Wilmington, NC for a vacation last summer, and snapped some pictures - the wiring there is terrible and the new work, jeez is also terrible. Not a betting Cowboy?

I

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by cduphily

I have always checked all of the branch circuit terminations in panelboards, to be sure that only one grounded (neutral) branch circuit conductor was terminated under each terminal screw.

I am pleased to present this reply from UL and from what I can gather this subject was included in the Eleventh Edition December 8, 1993

Before the most recent designation of ANSI/UL 67 as an American National Standard
(ANSI) occurred on October 23, 2003.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: CustomerService_Industrial_UL@us.ul.com
Subj: Re: UL 67 Panelboards
Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 2:13 pm
Size: 3K
To: "Joe Tedesco" <necinstructor@gmail.com>

Dear Joe,
Thank you for your email requesting the date of change for paragraph 12.3.10. Though I am not sure of the exact date of this paragraphs implementation, I can tell you that was prior to August 9, 1999.
If you have any additional questions please contact us.
Sincerely yours,

************************
UL Customer Service is available to assist you in the U.S. Monday - Friday 7am - 7pm CST.
Visit us Globally at http://www.ul.com.
Any information and documentation involving UL Mark services are provided on behalf of Underwriters
Laboratories Inc. (UL) or any authorized licensee of UL.
Phone: 1-877-UL Helps (1-877-854-3577)
Fax: 1-847- 407-1395
Email: CustomerService_Industrial_UL@us.ul.com
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Northbrook, IL 60062
***** WORKING FOR A SAFER WORLD SINCE 1894 *****
Any information and documentation involving UL Mark services are provided on behalf of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) or any authorized licensee of UL.

[jtedesco1]

Look here a few more agree with option 1

[Michael R. Boyett]

It's always a 'dance' when I try to educate my client on construction or installation methods that have improved over the years. As we all know and agree, just because something was done a certain way years ago doesn't mean we shouldn't call it out if improved methods have evolved.

Here is my standard comment re: double lugged neutrals:

There are several double/triple lugged neutral wires in the electrical distribution panel (subpanel) that do not meet modern installation requirements. This can be a safety or equipment hazard under certain conditions and I recommend a licensed electrician further inspect and repair if deemed necessary.

I just recently had this very thing happen on a condo inspection. I called out the double lugged neutrals, the seller's electrician looked at it and said it was a legal installation. I pointed out that was not so at least from the 2002 NEC forward and apparently he did not disagree and installed a buss expansion bar.

I then discussed this with a local Master Electrician, who is also a current HI and a past City Code Inspector. He said, at least here where I live, that individual city inspectors may or may not flag a double tapped neutral and that as an HI he does not either. Sure makes for a difficult time for me to determine how to report this situation but I'll stick with the above standard comment for the time being.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by mboyett

As we all know and agree, just because something was done a certain way years ago doesn't mean we shouldn't call it out if improved methods have evolved.

Problem is this could be said for 90% of any older electrical installation and much of everything else in a home. Where do you draw the line?


I do very much like you standard comment though. Very fair on both ends.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Problem is this could be said for 90% of any older electrical installation and much of everything else in a home. Where do you draw the line?

Yep, that's the proverbial 'dance' I was referring to .

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by mboyett

Yep, that's the proverbial 'dance' I was referring to .

The next dance has begun!

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

Joe,
I think that this photo is ABSOLUTELY amazing and it shows a lot of talent!
Why is it amazing? Think of all of the Patience and hard work that it took that Mule to get that Jack***** to hold still long enough to plop a Cowboy hat on it's head!

Now Frank! Give the J a c k a s s a break, his owner is incognito anyway, where is he anyway.

He ain't gonna be happy when he sees that you are making fun of him!

[Frank M. Carrio, CMI]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Now Frank! Give the J a c k a s s a break, his owner is incognito anyway, where is he anyway.

He ain't gonna be happy when he sees that you are making fun of him!

ROTFLMAO!
Well when a stranger comes UNINVITED into OUR house and starts slinging ***** they should expect to get some thrown back their way!

Mike in a sleazy manner has tried to sneak in some "back handed" insults and as far as I am concerned the "jack***** joke" is within appropriate limits.

Apparently he has no idea that we {NACHI} have some highly educated members and most of them have a rapier wit and will tear him a new one when he crosses the line.

Mike has clearly CONTRADICTED himself on the "Safety Issue" and now when called on the carpet he is resorting to trying to destroy YOUR credibility!

I say that he should go play with his mule!

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

ROTFLMAO!
Well when a stranger comes UNINVITED into OUR house and starts slinging ***** they should expect to get some thrown back their way!

Mike in a sleazy manner has tried to sneak in some "back handed" insults and as far as I am concerned the "jack***** joke" is within appropriate limits.

Apparently he has no idea that we {NACHI} have some highly educated members and most of them have a rapier wit and will tear him a new one when he crosses the line.

Mike has clearly CONTRADICTED himself on the "Safety Issue" and now when called on the carpet he is resorting to trying to destroy YOUR credibility!

I say that he should keep his big mouth shut, go ***** in his hat, put it on...... and go play with his mule!

Hey that's my hat!

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by fcarrio

Joe,
I think that this photo is ABSOLUTELY amazing and it shows a lot of talent!
Why is it amazing? Think of all of the Patience and hard work that it took that Mule to get that Jack***** to hold still long enough to plop a Cowboy hat on it's head!

There is no mule in that picture. It takes a Jack and a mare to make a mule.



Meet Abbie, she is my sweet little girl.
Can you make something so beautiful?

I am always proud of my children as you can see she is so cute. Now there is one beautiful MULE

Edited for spelling

[jtedesco1]

She's a beauty, can we see the rest of the family? Do you have any other animals?

[Joe Farsetta]

Mike,

It's obvious that you are a know-it-all, and that your head wont fit through a door.

Get this, A-hole, theworld of home inspectors doesnt revolve around the NEC. Like I said, I eat condescending jerks like you for lunch.

I'll take a prick like you on any friggin' day in front of a jury or judge. You are clueless. Absolutely clueless.

You come on this board and rank on us? What a hoot. Do us a favor. Go back to sleep.

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

She's a beauty, can we see the rest of the family? Do you have any other animals?

Yes I have several children, 9 dogs 18 birds and these others

This is Sundown a horse that stands a total of 30 inches at a ripe old age of 31 years



Skip-B-Wind a world champion western plesure with Dan out surrey horse



Nellie is looking at us a Team Penning Mustang that puts the wind in your face



Duke is a Stallion and has 180 raining points. Cuts cows like hot butter




Shot of Burbon another westren pleasure champ

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by jfarsetta

Like I said, I eat condescending jerks like you for lunch.

I have five children and five grandchildren with two great grand babies.

I can promise you that these didn't come from letting some other man eat me at any time.

I just ain't geared to let any man eat me so if you are so eager to eat another man I suggest that you hang out at one of them bars when other men let men do these things to them.

By the way, Was that you that left the red flag with all those four letter words defining some sexual act and signed it my mom?

Boy I see just how much of a professional you truly seem to be. I bet a judge would really love to have you in his court room.