Grounding again

[nbhi]

Can you have a neutral, grounding conductor and a grounded conductor on the same lug? I know that there shouldn't be two or more neutrals together, but what about one grounded conductor and one neutral?

Attachment 20958

Thanks

[Michael Larson]

Each grounded conductor(neutral) needs to terminate under it's own screw.

From Mike Holt's site:

Illustrated Changes to the NEC®
Article 408 (384 in 1999 NEC) Switchboards and Panelboards
All Content Copyright ©2008 Mike Holt Enterprises, Inc.
3604 Parkway Blvd Suite 3 Leesburg, FL 34748
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[jkogel]

It is generally way wrong to have grounds and neutrals on the same bus, let alone the same screw. Do you want grounds to be energized with the neutrals when you use the circuit?

[tdietrich1]

I love when people spout out stuff.

When you drive a ground rod, and connect it back to the electrical panel, which bar would it be connected to? The Neutral bar, or the Ground Bar(if installed)?

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

It is generally way wrong to have grounds and neutrals on the same bus

Only when the panel is downstream from the main panel (the neutral bar should be separate and floating) or if the neutral and ground are bonded at the meter.

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

It is generally way wrong to have grounds and neutrals on the same bus

Only when the panel is downstream from the main panel (the neutral bar should be separate and floating) or if the neutral and ground are bonded at the meter.

Yes, sorry about that, we were talking branch circuits, i think. Around here it's a given that the neutral is bonded to ground at the meter and kept separate for the branch circuits downstream from there.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by jkogel

Yes, sorry about that, we were talking branch circuits, i think. Around here it's a given that the neutral is bonded to ground at the meter and kept separate for the branch circuits downstream from there.

The neutral is always bonded in the meter as well as the main panel/disconnect.
I can only assume it is this way in Canada as well.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by tdietrich1

I love when people spout out stuff.

When you drive a ground rod, and connect it back to the electrical panel, which bar would it be connected to? The Neutral bar, or the Ground Bar(if installed)?

If it is in the main panel (as it must be) the easy answer to your question is YES.
Yes, the neutral or ground bar.

[tdietrich1]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

If it is in the main panel (as it must be) the easy answer to your question is YES.

Yes the topic was the main panel. So the neutral bar gets the GEC and a bonding jumping goes to the ground bar.

thx for playing along.

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by tdietrich1

Yes the topic was the main panel. So the neutral bar gets the GEC and a bonding jumping goes to the ground bar.

Not necessarily. The bonding jumper could be a screw, or bar, or strap. You do not need a jumper from bar to bar.

The bottom line is in the main panel the neutral bar gets bonded. Typically it is via a green screw.
Any add-on bars mounted to the panel back box are ground bars ONLY.

[jkogel]

OK, Gary's picture appears to show the branch circuit neutral bus i believe with what appear to be grounding conductors double tapped with the neutral wires. Because this is a confusing subject, it may help if someone with authority could clarify that this is simply wrong?

[Richard W. Washington]

Originally Posted by nbhi

Can you have a neutral, grounding conductor and a grounded conductor on the same lug? I know that there shouldn't be two or more neutrals together, but what about one grounded conductor and one neutral?

Attachment 20958

Thanks

PLease clarify--is it ok for the grounded conductor and neutral conductor to be on the same bus? From Michaels code reference then the grounded conductor can be doubled just not the neutral?

[Michael Larson]

Originally Posted by rwashington

PLease clarify--is it ok for the grounded conductor and neutral conductor to be on the same bus? From Michaels code reference then the grounded conductor can be doubled just not the neutral?

I think you may be confusing terms. The "grounded conductor" is the Neutral.

[Jeffrey R. Wicklander]

What might be confusing on that picture to some people are the colors being used. On the ground bar, they are using a green wire and a bare copper wire. Those may be doubled up.

Green (Grounding conductor or Ground)
Copper (Grounding conductor or Ground)
White (Grounded conductor or neutral)

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by jwicklander

Green (Grounding conductor or Ground)
Copper (Grounding conductor or Ground)
White (Grounded conductor or neutral)

Exactly.

You can add grey to the "Grounded conductor or neutral" category.