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Electrical Inspections Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes receptacles, panels, wiring, etc.

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  #1  
Old 9/8/06, 2:06 PM
tjohnson3 tjohnson3 is offline
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Default Grounding and neutral

I know that you are allowed to place two wires of the same size in a buss bar terminal, but can you mix ground wires and neutral wires in the same buss and screw position?

Toby
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  #2  
Old 9/8/06, 2:11 PM
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Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Nope.

The neutral must terminate under its own terminal/lug.

Grounding conductors may be doubled, only if the equipment listing allows for it.



IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE
Jeff Pope
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Santa Clarita Home Inspection
http://www.MyInspector.net


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Old 9/8/06, 2:19 PM
tjohnson3 tjohnson3 is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Thank you Jeff would you tell me the nec code that I can get this information from? I have 408.40 and 408.41 but where else can I find this?

Toby

Last edited by tjohnson3; 9/8/06 at 2:30 PM..
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  #4  
Old 9/8/06, 2:32 PM
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Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

NEC 408.21

NEC 408.40 & 408.41 do not exist.



IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE
Jeff Pope
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(661) 212-0738
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http://www.MyInspector.net


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Old 9/8/06, 3:02 PM
jtedesco1 jtedesco1 is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

2005 NEC:

408.40 Grounding of Panelboards
Panelboard cabinets and panelboard frames, if of metal, shall be in physical contact with each other and shall be grounded. Where the panelboard is used with nonmetallic raceway or cable or where separate grounding conductors are provided, a terminal bar for the grounding conductors shall be secured inside the cabinet. The terminal bar shall be bonded to the cabinet and panelboard frame, if of metal; otherwise it shall be connected to the grounding conductor that is run with the conductors feeding the panelboard.

Exception: Where an isolated equipment grounding conductor is provided as permitted by 250.146(D), the insulated equipment grounding conductor that is run with the circuit conductors shall be permitted to pass through the panelboard without being connected to the panelboard's equipment grounding terminal bar.
Grounding conductors shall not be connected to a terminal bar provided for grounded conductors (may be a neutral) unless the bar is identified for the purpose and is located where interconnection between equipment grounding conductors and grounded circuit conductors is permitted or required by Article 250.

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations
Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor.
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Old 9/8/06, 4:57 PM
Blaine Wiley Blaine Wiley is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Although incorrect today, it was common practice in this area for many, many years to terminate the ground and neutral at the same terminal on the buss. Literally thousands of panels in this area are done that way, and it was just fine with the AHJ.
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Old 9/8/06, 5:00 PM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Same thing goes for areas that are not under the NEC.
In my area we are under a state code which does not directly address this subject.
AHJ's allow it every day.

I myself do not do this though.
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Old 9/8/06, 5:06 PM
Larry Kage, CMI Larry Kage, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtedesco1
2005 NEC:

408.41 Grounded Conductor Terminations
Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.

Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor.
Always an exception to the proverbial rule...
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Old 9/8/06, 9:40 PM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

True, but we can only parallel conductors 1/0 and larger, so this is rarely an issue residentially.
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Old 9/8/06, 10:27 PM
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Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope
NEC 408.40 & 408.41 do not exist.
Except for in the 2005 NEC

I didn't look that far ahead. . .



IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
Santa Clarita CA
(661) 212-0738
Santa Clarita Home Inspection
http://www.MyInspector.net


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  #11  
Old 9/8/06, 11:08 PM
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bkelly2 bkelly2 is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Todays sub panel????? Not quite on point, but grounds and neutrals combined.

Last edited by bkelly2; 6/12/09 at 6:47 PM..
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Old 9/9/06, 12:25 AM
Speedy Petey Speedy Petey is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkelly2
Todays sub panel?????
Yet the bars are separate and the ground bar is bonded as it should be.
What geniuses.
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Old 9/9/06, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Yet the bars are separate and the ground bar is bonded as it should be.
What geniuses.
It was a thing of beauty Speedy. Each sub in the rather new 5 plex was like this.
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  #14  
Old 9/9/06, 12:54 AM
tjohnson3 tjohnson3 is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpope
NEC 408.21

NEC 408.40 & 408.41 do not exist.
In the nec 2005 408.21 has been deleted. As I am new to the business this is the first nec book I have bought, and do not have the earlyer books. Thanks for all the replys. They have been helpfull.


Toby
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  #15  
Old 9/9/06, 1:39 AM
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Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI Jeffrey R. Pope, CMI is offline
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Default Re: Grounding and neutral

I have a copy of the 2005 NEC as well. I just didn't think to look at it as my area is still working from the 2002 NEC.



IF YOUR INSPECTOR IS NOT USING THERMAL IMAGING, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE WHOLE PICTURE
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
Santa Clarita CA
(661) 212-0738
Santa Clarita Home Inspection
http://www.MyInspector.net


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