GEC question

[Bill Smith]

Two service panels for each with its own meter. The gec comes into the panel on the left and lands on a bus bar. A second gec is tapped off of that bar and continues to the second panel. I've never seen this before - is it ok?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Edited.....I called ya.....I hope you are straight now...if you need anything else feel free to give me a call.

[Bill Smith]

Thanks Paul - you are the best. I appreciate you taking the time to call and explain it.

[Barry Adair]

Originally Posted by bsmith

Thanks Paul - you are the best. I appreciate you taking the time to call and explain it.

if you'd be so kind please explain to the rest of us

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by badair

if you'd be so kind please explain to the rest of us

Barry... are you feeling left out that nobody will call you?

Answer your friggin phone, will ya?

This is super-secret electrician stuff, and we can't just go blurting it out for everyone.

[Greg Fretwell]

In my opinion that jumper should be removed. It is a parallel neutral path.
You only need to ground a service once, anywhere between the service point and the service disconnect.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Marc.....I choose to call him and explain the options and so on.

Edited...I just wont go there....

Anyway......just easier this morning to call as I was heading out.....plus you got 3 other electricians here who can explain it.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Marc.....I choose to call him and explain the options and so on.

Probably the best option in this case, because as you say, there are options. There is also some missing necessary information in the first post. It would have involved a long, drawn-out series of posts, with much code thrown in. That would have gotten ugly quickly from the people who want the quick easy answers and who also don't tolerate the technical content very kindly.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Anyway this issue is cleared up in the newer revision but what Greg is saying is correct....however, this is how it has been done for many years and it seems that many AHJ's still allow the practice.....thinking more in terms of bonding the enclosures together as opposed to it being an actual GEC...and then many say the TAP conditions onder the GEC requirements are then not in play.......

I think in the original question it was asked about the GEC and the allowance of the applications for the GEC to each disconnection means is growing with the 2008 revision...but here is a picture of a common way to do a tap on the GEC....

Electricians have been argueing over this very thing for many cycles....it was just easier to call bill.....than to do a long and drug out thing here...sorry as it was my choice and I made it......

[Paul W. Abernathy]

The more I got into this...why re-create the wheel......Barry...read this article and it will become crystal clear.....

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_7/

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I would not worry as much about that Parallel issue.....while the application is wrong you are going to have parallels in the water piping system as well if bonded properly and so on....anyway being in place in my opinion is better than not being there at all...or with the lack of a proper TAP method..

Check out the debate on it over at the HOLT site...you will see what I mean..

http://forums.mikeholt.com/archive/i...p/t-56612.html

Kinda a Lessor of TWO evils approach really....but in the end...just plain sloppy....

[Greg Fretwell]

The code has softened it's stand on parallel paths on the line side of the main bonding jumper so this is really just a redundant connection. The point really is, you only have to ground a service once.

[tdietrich1]

I remember the first time I went to put in a double meter-base on a two family house(one service drop). I drew it out to figure the least amount of copper and time. I had a spider web of copper planned. Then the master elec showed me something. The double meter base had a teeny-tiny lug on it, for 6awg on the 'neutral' bar. Life has simpler ever since.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

The code has softened it's stand on parallel paths on the line side of the main bonding jumper so this is really just a redundant connection. The point really is, you only have to ground a service once.

But the NEC continues to demand the methods for tapping the GEC in regards to multiple disconnection locations....Why soften it and then get redundant on the method and location of the connections Greg.

The nec is very clear on what methods are allowed to make that connection, if it is done at a gutter or at the meter can I can see no problem with a single grounding point...but if it is done at the panels inside we have to look at how the connections are made and if proper bonding is taking place....parallel paths on grounding and so on is being brushed aside for a better chance of clearing faults in making sure enclosures are tied together in more than a single location out at the meter or a gutter location..dont you think?

[Greg Fretwell]

I really do not see a problem with multiple paths on the line side of the main bonding jumper.