Grounding at gas pipe entrance

[Kevin R. Weiss]

Came across somthing today that I wanted some input from others on.

Breaker panel listed the ground for the system at the "gas pipe". Investigation revealed a ground wire at the main gas entrance (house side of meter). Also found an apparent UFER ground wire and a cold water pipe clamp typical for the area under a sink. Not concerned if the gas line is "bonded" but found it unusual for it to be listed as a "ground."

What say you? I know underground gas pipe is not to be used as a ground. This is just not typical.

[brian winkle]

Looks like that is on the house side of the gas meter, to bond the interior gas piping.

[Speedy Petey]

I still find it odd that they actually listed the ground location at all, AND that it is listed as the gas pipe. This is a HUGE code violation.
I mean it does look like a bond, and not a grounding electrode conductor, but odd nonetheless.
Why put it outside?

A separate gas bond is rarely required unless ALL the gas applainces are non-electric (such as an old school water heater).

With a Ufer nothing else is required, at least in a new home. By new I mean less than three years.

If the water pipe entering the house is metallic then it MUST be used as the primary electrode and be connected to within five feet of where it enters the structure.

[brian winkle]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Why put it outside?

.

Because the OP is in Texas. In the Southwest everything is outside, main panels, breakers, meters, pipe bonds. We don't have basements and darn few attics.

Also, I can't speak for Texas, but here in Tucson, we are required to bond the gas piping to the service, on the house side of course. The dielectrics in the meter will prevent the utility line from being electrically connected.

I know, code says the bonding can be accomplished by the gas appliance itself, but our city does not recognize that.

By the way, our furnaces are all plug and cord, plugged into a fused receptacle.

And yes, some of our homes are made out of mud and straw.

[Speedy Petey]

DAMN! All good info to know Brian.
Thanks!

[Keith Swift, PhD.]

I've seen lots of gas mains bonded here in la-la-land (Los Angeles), which seems to be mandated now. But what I truly understand about electricity, other than it is one of nature's awesome mysteries and that it can most certainly kill me, would fit on a postage stamp.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Actually not very strange happenings back in the 50's....not sure when this dwelling was built but in in reference to the 1956 NEC is states in 2582(b.) the following:

2582. Other Available Electrodes. Where a water system as described in section 2581 is noty available, the grounding connection may be made to any of the following:

a.) The metal frame of a building, if effectively grounded

b.) a continuous metallic underground gas piping system

c.) Other local metallic underground systems, such as piping, tanks and the like.

So you see CODES change.....while we still bond to the gas line at one point in time it was considered indeed a method of grounding electrode.

[Kevin R. Weiss]

This was a one year old home.

So, am I correct in saying that "bonding" the gas line is okay (I know one city around here at least requires it, but this house was not there.) I cant say I have ever seen the gas line bonded or grounded at this location.

As I said, the other grounds I found were typical and seemed correct. So maybe everything is ok and it was mislabeled on the panel? I am going to point it out and say that a licensed electrician should verify the grounds on the system, as having the ground at the "gas pipe" is not appropriate.

[Brian A. MacNeish]

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

I still find it odd that they actually listed the ground location at all, AND that it is listed as the gas pipe. This is a HUGE code violation.
I mean it does look like a bond, and not a grounding electrode conductor, but odd nonetheless.
Why put it outside?

A separate gas bond is rarely required unless ALL the gas applainces are non-electric (such as an old school water heater).

With a Ufer nothing else is required, at least in a new home. By new I mean less than three years.

If the water pipe entering the house is metallic then it MUST be used as the primary electrode and be connected to within five feet of where it enters the structure.

Interesting, Pete. Our code has to have the ground connected before the main shut-off with no length mentioned.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Kevin,

Yes, the NEC required the bonding of this gas line if it is likely to become energized to someone possibly feels it is likely to happen so bonding to it is fine. Yes, the bond can come straight from the panel to the gas line if need be.....again it is not being considered as anything regarding an grounding electrode....it is only dealing with bonding.....

Since it is only a (1) year old house....seems like your area is trying to become more compliant to what the NEC actually says and again someone felt it was an issue so bonded it....no worries.

I also agree 100% with Peters accessment on the chances are other appliances in the system using gas probably have a 120V electrical connection and a EGC as well....the NEC allows this connection to surfice as the connection to the gas line as well and avoiding any need to run a line back from every appliance.....its part of the exception.

Again.....remember if the dwelling does have the other required " Grounding Electrodes" required by the NEC cycle during construction then you find this connection from the panel to the gas pipe...I would not be overly concerned but if that label says that.......I would suggest they mark that out to avoid any future issues, and quite possibly get us the name of the breaker manufactuer so me or mike holt could contact them....

[Speedy Petey]

Originally Posted by Brian A. MacNeish

Interesting, Pete. Our code has to have the ground connected before the main shut-off with no length mentioned.

Pretty much the same thing, just different wording. The main shut off is typically right at the entrance so no distance would need to be mandated.

[jlybolt]

Very common to see this here in Houston and Austin TX. Dont see a problem.