InterNACHI


Go Back   InterNACHI Message Board > Specific Inspection Topics > Electrical

Notices

Electrical Contains discussions about electrical systems. This includes outlets, panels, wiring, et cetera.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 8/30/07, 1:59 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

o·ver·pro·tectplay_w("O0189400") (vr-pr-tkt) tr.v. o·ver·pro·tect·ed, o·ver·pro·tect·ing, o·ver·pro·tects To protect too much; coddle: overprotected their children.

over·pro·tection n.
over·pro·tective adj.
over·pro·tective·ness n.

lol...to my mind ( and i wont get into opposites and so on...) overprotected would be putting a 15A breaker on a 10 AWG....in basic branch circuit terms would indeed be overprotected for the conductors...not illegal mind you and done all the time for voltage drop issues.



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 8/30/07, 2:00 PM
Nick Gromicko's Avatar
Nick Gromicko Nick Gromicko is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 19,588
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Anyone know Rex Cauldwell's email? We should probably alert him.



Nick Gromicko, CMI
Founder
World's biggest, best inspection association
"Planet InterNACHI... resistance is futile"
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 8/30/07, 2:03 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

lol....editted as I was being MEAN....

Opps sorry......I dont really know.......



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"


Last edited by pabernathy; 8/30/07 at 2:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 8/30/07, 2:06 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

I thought you said you see this in reports Nick.......so you are seeing this in publications...

Heck I always see misinformed information...heck some images displayed in many well known books and inspection education companies books as incorrect....yeah they should get em proofed before publication.



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 8/30/07, 2:25 PM
Nick Gromicko's Avatar
Nick Gromicko Nick Gromicko is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 19,588
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

I'm seeing it at Report Review often. So I tracked it all down. Rex's book was one incorrect source. The other problem is the resistance (no electrical play on words) some inspectors have in using the term "overfused" when describing a panel of solely CBs.



Nick Gromicko, CMI
Founder
World's biggest, best inspection association
"Planet InterNACHI... resistance is futile"
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 8/30/07, 2:27 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Ahhh..gotcha......verbiage can be VERY important in educating others. Sorry I elaborated well beyond your needs as it made for good education for others who are unclear on the proper understanding of the terms.



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 8/30/07, 2:42 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

ok..ok....I can see where "Overprotection" would be kinda the same vectorally as "Undersized"..lolol...but undersized can mean many things electrically and all are generally BAD...lol....overprotection gives the impression of MORE protection or more than is needed when in fact it gives less protection to the conductors in the example being used.

Maybe Rex was speaking of the term loosly...lol.....

Ok..I am done with this one unless anyone would like to add more as hell I am doing nothing today but working on my websites...lol

Lets not make something more complicated that it has to be.



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 8/30/07, 2:54 PM
Greg Fretwell Greg Fretwell is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Estero Florida
Posts: 1,798
Please Note: Greg Fretwell is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

What is wrong with saying the overcurrent protection is not matched to the wire size and this may present a hazard. Just be careful that you are not confusing overload protection with overcurrent protection, like an A/C condenser, that appears to have a breaker too large for the wire.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 8/30/07, 3:06 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Greg...absolutly nothing but I think NICK was looking for a single term that would explain it versus a term used by Rex Cauldwell as " Overprotected " in terms of a larger breaker on a smaller conductor ( without the exceptions afforded us by the NEC as you stated )....and the use of "Overprotected" in a HI report for the above mentioned example in my mind is improper.



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 8/30/07, 3:11 PM
Nick Gromicko's Avatar
Nick Gromicko Nick Gromicko is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 19,588
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Correct. "Overprotected" means a small breaker, not a big one. I like "Oversized" the most.



Nick Gromicko, CMI
Founder
World's biggest, best inspection association
"Planet InterNACHI... resistance is futile"
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 8/30/07, 3:32 PM
Mike Whitt's Avatar
Mike Whitt Mike Whitt is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 474
Please Note: Mike Whitt is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Gentlemen

I thank each and every one of you for such a true blessing as I have gotten from this thread today.

A medical fact is that a person cannot worry and laugh at the same time and I have been doing some powerful laughing for the past few minutes.

Each one of you thinks about your side of the discussion and just what "Over Protected” means.

Now without any future though about "Over Protected” think about just what the device you are talking about is called;



Both the fuse and the circuit breaker are know as the;






“Overcurrent Protective Device”





Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 8/30/07, 3:36 PM
Nick Gromicko's Avatar
Nick Gromicko Nick Gromicko is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 19,588
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Yes, and the smaller the breaker (not the bigger the breaker) the greater the protection from overcurrent. A gap or insulated material would be the ultimate in overcurrent protection.



Nick Gromicko, CMI
Founder
World's biggest, best inspection association
"Planet InterNACHI... resistance is futile"
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 8/30/07, 3:39 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

lol...mike I think they know what the device is.....I think they are refering to a publication that said putting a larger OCPD on a smaller conductor is termed "overprotection"....lol.......not really talking about the OCPD itself I don't believe but hell I could be wrong. I know WHY I am elaborating on it more....because I am BORED TO DEATH today....

Here is the original post:

I keep seeing reports that call a breaker too big for the circuit it's protecting as "Over Protected."

Why wouldn't it be "Under Protected?"

A breaker that is allowing too much current to pass through wires that are too small would be under protecting the wires... no?



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"


Last edited by pabernathy; 8/30/07 at 3:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 8/30/07, 3:52 PM
Paul W. Abernathy's Avatar
Paul W. Abernathy Paul W. Abernathy is offline
InterNACHI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA
Posts: 7,539
Send a message via AIM to pabernathy Send a message via MSN to pabernathy
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Nick was right....in his statement. I kinda am guilty for keeping it going just for Sh*ts and Giggles.....sorry



Paul W. Abernathy,CMI,CEI,CEPE
NEC® Consultant/Columnist
www.twitter.com/ElectricalGuru

- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Inspector
- ICC & IAEI Certified Electrical Plans Examiner
- Look for my article in the Nov/Dec 2009 IAEI Magazine
- 2007 "Top Gun" Winner - Mike Holt Enterprises
" visit www.TheElectricalGuru.com Today !"

Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 8/30/07, 4:01 PM
Mike Whitt's Avatar
Mike Whitt Mike Whitt is offline
Active Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 474
Please Note: Mike Whitt is a non-member guest and is in no way affiliated with InterNACHI or its members.
Default Re: Help. What is the correct way to report a breaker that is too big.

Yea, it was this phrase;
Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko
I keep seeing reports that call a breaker too big for the circuit it's protecting as "Over Protected."
But when I read this sentence I read it as though it was written like this;

“I keep seeing reports that call an overcurrent protective device that is to big for the circuit it’s protecting as [“overprotected”]”
Can you see the humor in the use of the word “over” being used here?

Then just for the fun of it I read the second part of the post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko
Why wouldn't it be "Under Protected?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gromicko
A breaker that is allowing too much current to pass through wires that are too small would be under protecting the wires... no?
as;

An overcurrent device that is allowing too much current to pass through wires that are too small would be under protecting the wires……or…… it would now be an undercurrent protective device.

Forgive me as I had trouble typing as I have laughed so hard that I am crying and it is hard to see what I am doing.

Please don’t be offended by my sick sense of humor and it is a good question, just one that I wasn’t expecting.
I have always thought of something that is “over protecting” a conductor as being to large for the conductor.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Washington Legislation Submitted gdomagala Legislation, Licensing & Legal Issues 293 2/10/08 2:20 AM
New Report Upload Technology cdemsky Misc. Discussion 49 5/1/07 11:19 AM
WA Structural Pest Inspector Law hmiller Legislation, Licensing & Legal Issues 18 4/1/07 3:10 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Copyright © International Association of Certified Home Inspectors, Inc. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147

Popular Sections

:

All Sections

Popular

Membership

Inspection Standards

Education

Chapters & Members

Articles & Links

Other Organizations

 

 

 

NACHI.ORG Statistics

 

 

no new posts