Hey Electricians... Can you help by proofing this new course?

[Nick Gromicko]

http://education.nachi.org/show.php?course_id=53

Post corrections and comments here please.

Course developed by member Russ Meyers. Thanks Russ!

[Nick Gromicko]

All contributors will be recognized on the last page of the course. Please help.

[Mike Whitt]

Could you make it available with out all that resigning up?

I signed up but I still can't get to anything

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

Could you make it available with out all that resigning up?

I signed up but I still can't get to anything

Can't get past the first page on anything there. Have tried several times and just can't get there.

Would be glad to help but I just can't seem to figure out how to see it

Have been working for more time than it would take to take the test just trying to see it

Would be glad to take a look but there don't seem to be a way for me to access it

Have I made my point clear that I can't see it?


I don't think that I would pay a fee just to help someone on a problem but if you can make it possible for me to see it I will gladly make my comments good and bad

[Gerry Beaumont]

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

Can't get past the first page on anything there. Have tried several times and just can't get there.

Would be glad to help but I just can't seem to figure out how to see it

Have been working for more time than it would take to take the test just trying to see it

Would be glad to take a look but there don't seem to be a way for me to access it

Have I made my point clear that I can't see it?

Hi Mike,

as a non-member you cannot access beyond the first page

Regards

Gerry

[Mike Whitt]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

Hi Mike,

as a non-member you cannot access beyond the first page

Regards

Gerry

I was and still very eager to help Nick out but I just can't get there. I think it is asking a bit much to ask someone to take a test and pay a due fee just to be able to help but then again who am I?

I will be glad to add my two cents and share my knowledge with the Home Inspectors as long as it doesn't cost me anything.

Being that I only work part time and the banks are failing my income is very limited and I am starving to death. I have taken to eating road kill in order to survive and not die from starvation.

The last time I counted my life savings it took me almost an hour to count my money. I put the pennies in one pile and the nickels in another, didn’t have any dimes and quarters as I had already used all of them to pay the light bill.

I have taken to driving my car down hill all the time as I can’t afford to buy gas for it. The wife is getting tired of pushing back up the hill for our next trip??????

Seriously, I would be glad to proof it item in question as long as I don’t have to pay an annual due in order to do so. Is that asking too much?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

I thought we already had one done by Gerry a long time ago and I assisted him on it.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Statement made in the presentation:

Armored cable must be supported by a strap or staple every 6 feet and within 24 inches of every switch or junction box, except for concealed runs in old work where it is impossible to mount straps.

Corrections you need to make :

(B) Securing.

Unless otherwise provided, Type AC cable

shall be secured within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet
box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting and at intervals not

exceeding 1.4 m (4 1/2 ft) where installed on or across framing

members.
(C) Supporting.

Unless otherwise provided, Type AC cable
shall be supported at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41.2 ft).
Horizontal runs of Type AC cable installed in wooden

or metal framing members or similar supporting means

shall be considered supported where such support does not
exceed 1.4-m (41.2-ft) intervals.

Note : MC Cable is the cable allowed to be supported very 6'

(B) Securing.

Unless otherwise provided, cables shall be secured
at intervals not exceeding 1.8 m (6 ft). Cables containing
four or fewer conductors sized no larger than 10 AWG

shall be secured within 300 mm (12 in.) of every box, cabinet,

fitting, or other cable termination.

(C) Supporting.
Unless otherwise provided, cables shall
be supported at intervals not exceeding 1.8-m (6-ft)
Horizontal runs of Type MC cable installed in wooden

or metal framing members or similar supporting means

shall be considered supported and secured where such support

does not exceed 1.8-m (6-ft) intervals.

On the part with Ekectric Circuits....it might be better serves to explain it a little differently..

"Section 220-3b of the code requires two small appliance circuits to serve only appliance outlets in the kitchen, laundry, pantry, family room, dining room, and breakfast room. Both circuits must be extended to the kitchen and serve the counter top areas; either one or both of these circuits may serve the other rooms. No lighting outlets may be connected to these circuits, and they must be wired with 12-gauge wire and protected by a 20-ampere over-current device. Each circuit will have a capacity of 20 x 115 (2,300 watts). This is not too much when you consider that toasters often require more than 1,600 watts."

My suggestions are in RED, and your other info gets the point accross..again it is not for electricians who should already know this info so it is good to keep it brief and to the point.

Under the grounded outlet statement it reads:

If the conventional two-opening outlet is used, it may be grounded if the screw that holds the outlet cover plate is electrically connected to the third-wire ground. The tester should light when one lead is in contact with a clean paint-free metal outlet cover plate screw and the hot side of the outlet. If the tester does not light, the outlet is not grounded. If a two-opening outlet is grounded, it may be adapted for use by a three-wire appliance by using an adapter. The loose-wire portion or screw tab of the adapter should be secured behind the metal screw of the outlet plate cover. Many appliances, such as electric shavers and some new hand tools, are double insulated and are safe without having a third ground wire.

Green Comments : If the receptalce is a 2 wire system chances are the center screw that holds the cover is not going to be grounded.....be careful someone does not do a bootleg to fool you on this....I am not sure I would actually make that statement..
Blue: The adapters with the wire form them are not approved anymore

I will give more suggestions, I just sold my Bike and I have to run to DMV with the guy......have fun guys

[Nick Gromicko]

Thanks Paul!

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

I thought we already had one done by Gerry a long time ago and I assisted him on it.

Paul, I think you might be correct on that.

I just took this exam again and feel I have taken it 3 times.

Remember, I am a Carpenter by trade and know enough about electrical to be dangerous. ha. ha.

Anyways, I got a 91 this time.

It is unfortunate that we do not get to see which ones we got wrong.

Same mistakes probably happen again and again because of that.

Few questions popped up while taking the exam.

Since when are the amount of 15 amp circuits determined or related to square footage.
I have always been told that a 15 amp circuit had 8 receptacles max. and 20amp circuit could have 11.
Paul, could you elaborate on this?

I also notice armored cable was called BX.

Wasn't that the original armored cable that we use to use that was also called Greenfield.?
I thought in today's world it was called MC. Correct me please.

Hot wires are never white was stated.

Am I wrong in my thinking that sometimes it could be and painted black.

Now these are items I notice in the Field of Construction, so any interpetation of the right way or how it should be would be helpful to me.

Paul, thanks for reviewing this with all of us.

I am sure we will all learn something out of this whole thing.

Your contributions are very well appreciated.

Thank you.

Marcel

[Mike Whitt]

Got this in an email from a student, “Mike why are you being so rude to Nick as he was only asking for help”

If this student though that I was being rude to Nick there is probably several others out there that think the same way so I feel as though I should address this now before it gets out of hand.

It was my full intention to be funny. Yes I agree that I do have a sick sense of humor as can been seen here.

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

I have taken to eating road kill in order to survive and not die from starvation.

I also thought that this would put a grin on someone face as we all know no one is going to pay a utility bill using dimes and quarters unless they use a wheelbarrow to roll them in with.

Originally Posted by Mike Whitt

The last time I counted my life savings it took me almost an hour to count my money. I put the pennies in one pile and the nickels in another, didn’t have any dimes and quarters as I had already used all of them to pay the light bill.

So please, should anyone find my post offensive just try and look at the one making the post. I promise I was only trying to be funny.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Marcel,

Here is your question :

Since when are the amount of 15 amp circuits determined or related to square footage.
I have always been told that a 15 amp circuit had 8 receptacles max. and 20amp circuit could have 11.
Paul, could you elaborate on this?

My Answer: Nothing in the NEC actually tells us how many receptacles we can place on a circuit as it applies to residential applications. We do have statements that direct us to evenly proportions of branch circuit layouts and so on but dirrectly we do not. Many people confuse the 90vA per receptacle required on commerical calculatiosn for receptacles but it does not really apply to residential applications.

Now what you have to look at is this......how many luminaires are you also putting on the circuit along with those receptacles.....would be poor design if you had say 12-13 amps of known lighting loads on a circuit and then put a crude load of receptacles on it also.....so it is all a design thing but again the NEC does not tell us how many per circuit in residential applications...but common sense does.

Your other question was :

Wasn't that the original armored cable that we use to use that was also called Greenfield.?
I thought in today's world it was called MC. Correct me please.

Ok...we have both MC and AC in todays world.....as well as MCAP as well as Hospital Grade MC......and so on.

MC Cable has a Equipment Ground ran with the conductors and AC Cable uses the outer case as the equipment ground so to speak.....because AC has convelutions that connect each spiral portion of the cable providing that low impedance path required to aid in opening an overcurrent protection device ( OCPD )

BX is a tradename only...it is not a wiring method per se' meaning it is refered to as AC or MC these days, it is very common for people to think the old BX 's outer jacket is approved as a fault current path of low impedance and I disagree....look at its metal makeup, look at its poor connection properties and its impedance is not the same as the AC Cable used today...so I tell people..if you think BX ( tradename of old metal spiral cable ) and its metal outer jacket is a good fault current path.......how come they wont let MC be used the same way in todays world without the equipment ground being run inside.....AC and MC are not created equal.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Gotta run........guy is waiting for me.....later everyone.

[Marcel R. Cyr]

Paul, thanks for the clarification on that, it was very valuable information.

Thank you

Marcel

[Frank P. Newman]

Originally Posted by mcyr

I also notice armored cable was called BX.

Wasn't that the original armored cable that we use to use that was also called Greenfield.?
I thought in today's world it was called MC. Correct me please.

If I remember correctly "Greenfield" was once (is?) a brand name that is often used generically to describe flexible aluminum conduit.