Hey Electricians... Can you help by proofing this new course?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by mlarson

P=E²/R

A resistive load would result in increased kilowatts for the higher voltage.

... of which there are only a couple in a home when compared to the load total.

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Welcome Giuseppe!

Your complaints about what you read as being incorrect, and making suggested corrections should not be directed toward the person who claims to have written this, but to the following:

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/publications...ng/housing.htm

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

We acknowledge the suggestions, assistance, and review of numerous individuals and organizations that went into the original and current versions of this manual. The revisions to this manual were made by a team of environmental health, housing, and public health professionals led by Professor Joe Beck, Dr. Darryl Barnett, Dr. Gary Brown, Dr. Carolyn Harvey, Professor Worley Johnson, Dr. Steve Konkel, and Professor Charles Treser.

Individuals from the following organizations were involved in the various drafts of this manual:

• Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), Healthy Homes and Lead Hazard Control,
• U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), National Center for Environmental Health (NCEH)
• National Healthy Homes Training Center and Network
• National Association of Housing and Redevelopment Officials
• Department of Building, Housing and Zoning; Allentown, Pennsylvania
• Code Enforcement Associates; East Orange, New Jersey
• Eastern Kentucky University; Richmond, Kentucky
• University of Washington; Seattle, Washington
• Battelle Memorial Institute; Columbus, Ohio

Specifically, our gratitude goes to the following reviewers:
Dr. David Jacobs, Martin Nee, and Dr. Peter Ashley, HUD; Pat Bohan, East Central University; James Larue, The House Mender Inc.; Ellen Tohn, ERT Associates; Dr. Stephen Margolis, Emory University; and Joseph Ponessa and Rebecca Morley, Healthy Homes Training Center.

A special thank-you for assistance from Carolyn Case-Compton, Habitat for Humanity, 123 East Main Street, Morehead, Kentucky. Pictures of a home under construction are courtesy of Habitat for Humanity and John King, home builder and instructor, Rowan County Technical College, Morehead, Kentucky; and Don W. Johnson, building photographer of Habitat for Humanity.

In addition, a special thank you to the Environmental Health Services Branch and the following staff: CAPT Craig Shepherd and CAPT Michael Herring, Commissioned Corps, U.S. Public Health Service, for their research and review during the editing of this manual. Special thanks also to Pamela S. Wigington and Teresa M. Sims for their hard work preparing this manual for Web publication.

Joe
Once again you have me confused.

Nick asks that this be commented on and post here in this thread. I thought that he wanted this for continuing education for Home Inspectors.

Are you saying this is something that is going to be used for training material in Iraq?

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

No not for training in IRAQ, you should search the text of this so called new material and see that it comes word for word from the CDC!

Get it now?

We both know that a lot of the material contained within is completly wrong don't we

[jbushart]

Originally Posted by jwhitt

We both know that a lot of the material contained within is completly wrong don't we

Wrong....according to....?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by jwhitt

We both know that a lot of the material contained within is completly wrong don't we

I think the main objection is to the material being referred to as new or possibly unique to NACHI, and the requisite baiting of electricians to review it, where a membership would be required to do so. From a business standpoint, it was worth a try. Otherwise, it had the appearance of a low class ploy to the thinking man.

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jbushart

Wrong....according to....?

250.4(A)(5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. Electrical equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive material likely to become energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a low-impedance circuit facilitating the operation of the overcurrent device or ground detector for high-impedance grounded systems. It shall be capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where a ground fault may occur to the electrical supply source. The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path.

How about the NEC saying that some of the material covered in the text is absolutely incorrect!

The one thing that I have learned about this site is the inability of some to learn. They seem to be stuck is the yesteryear and refuse to budge.

There is a misconception that grounding or connecting to earth some how makes an electrical system safe. This is far from the truth. Bonding at the service is what makes an electrical system safe. The ground rod, water pipe, concrete encased electrode and the other five electrodes in no way makes the system safe, it only protects from;
250.4 General Requirements for Grounding and Bonding.
The following general requirements identify what grounding and bonding of electrical systems are required to accomplish. The prescriptive methods contained in Article 250 shall be followed to comply with the performance requirements of this section.
(A) Grounded Systems.
(1) Electrical System Grounding. Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.

It is the bonding of the equipment grounding conductors, service enclosure and grounding electrodes back to the source that protects equipment and personal from current flow;
250.4(A)(5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path. Electrical equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive material likely to become energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a low-impedance circuit facilitating the operation of the overcurrent device or ground detector for high-impedance grounded systems. It shall be capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where a ground fault may occur to the ELECTRICAL SUPPLY SOURCE.The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path.

According to the NEC it is incorrect. Then we have math that we can always fall back on. Ohm’s Law is a math equation and will prove that the earth is not a conductor for lower voltages such as 120/240.

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Joey!

If you are having heartburn about what you see wrong tell the real authors about your problems!

Because it was Nick that ask and not the real authors. Are you saying the material is correct?

[jbushart]

Originally Posted by jwhitt

According to the NEC it is incorrect.

I know that electricians limit themselves to this source, but I hope in reviewing HI courses you will take into consideration that the NEC is not the only code out there AND that home inspectors, unlike electricians, are not handcuffed by it.

Because the NEC is silent on certain things...Home Inspectors need not be. Additionally, we will use recent reports published by various agencies as references for conditions that we may feel to be unsafe...that are perfectly fine with NEC (purple wire nut copper pigtails to aluminum conductors comes to mind).

Wrong, according to the NEC, is not necessarily wrong for our purposes.

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jbushart

I know that electricians limit themselves to this source, but I hope in reviewing HI courses you will take into consideration that the NEC is not the only code out there AND that home inspectors, unlike electricians, are not handcuffed by it.

Originally Posted by jbushart

Because the NEC is silent on certain things...Home Inspectors need not be. Additionally, we will use recent reports published by various agencies as references for conditions that we may feel to be unsafe...that are perfectly fine with NEC (purple wire nut copper pigtails to aluminum conductors comes to mind).

Wrong, according to the NEC, is not necessarily wrong for our purposes.

I think that I understand fully. I also understand both through real life experiences and through post made here on this forum that a lot of the information used by Home Inspectors are so far outdated that Noah wouldn’t use them when he built his boat.

I also understand that when a Home Inspector makes a call on something that is neither a code violation nor unsafe just because he is making the call based on wrong information given him is a class he took it hurts not only him but the organization as a whole.

Both through life experiences and post I have read on this forum there is a big misunderstanding when it comes to grounding. This misunderstanding comes from material such as Nick has asked the electricians to comment on in this thread.

In the material that Nick is asking about the comment is made in two separate places that grounding is to prevent someone from being electrocuted. Grounding will in no way stop anyone from being electrocuted. Bonding will be what protects the person from being hurt.

In the material that Nick is asking about the author makes the statement that the ground rod carries current all the way back to the utility generator. This simply is not true. There is no connection at all between the grounding electrode system at a building and the utility generator.

It is not my intent of preach code but to ensure that the material in some sort of way is at least partly correct.
One fact that the author of the material point out and I do not dispute is that a complete path from one side of the source to the other must be in tack in order for current to flow.
From the secondary of the pole transformer current can not return to the utility generator as there is no connection from the generator and the secondary of the transformer.
Any current that might flow on the grounding electrode of the building will have to return to the secondary of the transformer and can go to no other place.

Just the first few pages of what I have read lead me to believe that the original author has complied a bunch of material from several different places and from different time frames and is calling it modern material. The diagrams he uses shows this material is more than a few years old. For the most part he has done a fairly good job but the grounding parts are far from being correct. Anyone trying to use this material for grounding will end up getting someone hurt of even killed. It is old material and completely out of date.

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Sorry you do not understand yet!

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Go ahead and waste your time for free, and our time with your comments!

Well Joe as a member of this forum please enlighten me. Just what do I not understand?
Please explain it to me and be sure to do it in a way that this lowly hillbilly can understand.

I don’t feel that I am wasting my time any time that I try to explain electrical theory to anyone who don’t have a full understanding.
If you think that I am wasting your time there is a simple solution, don’t read them.

Once again I ask you if you agree with the material that Nick has ask the electricians to look over?
Do you agree with the grounding aspects as outlined by the original author?

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

The following is "word for word" and is in the public domain, edit this and tell the CDC about what you see wrong!

Download Adobe Acrobat (PDF) version of this section - 1096KB
To order hard copies or CD-ROMs of the complete manual,
call 1-800-CDC-INFO.





Table of Contents

• Introduction
• Flow of Electric Current
• Electric Service Entrance
• Grounding
• Two-or Three-wire Electric Services
• Residential Wiring Adequacy
• Wire Sizes and Types
• Types of Cable
• Flexible Cords
• Wiring
• Electric Service Panel
• Over-Current Devices
• Electric Circuits
• Common Electrical Violations
• Inspection Steps
• References
• Additional Sources of Information

Joey!

Why are you avoiding answering my questions??????

Are they two hard to answer???????

Do you not know the answer????

Why do you keep asking for me to contact these people when it was Nick that asked me to take a look at the material and post anything I found that I disagreed with?????

Will you Please answer my questions????

Well Joe as a member of this forum please enlighten me. Just what do I not understand?
Please explain it to me and be sure to do it in a way that this lowly hillbilly can understand.

I don’t feel that I am wasting my time any time that I try to explain electrical theory to anyone who don’t have a full understanding.
If you think that I am wasting your time there is a simple solution, don’t read them.

Once again I ask you if you agree with the material that Nick has ask the electricians to look over?
Do you agree with the grounding aspects as outlined by the original author?


Respectively
Mike

Edited to add:

Oh and by the way Joe what you have posted above is not what Nick asded to have us look at now is it?

Isn't what Nick asked us to look at a condensed version with a couple of changes to the language?

Isn't what Nick asked us to look at accessible from this site?

[Marc Benz]

I will like to help ya with this.,, However ,.. Unforteally I only can get into first page but for the rest there is not much I can do due I am not a member of this orgazation.

Nick., If you can find a way to tempory bypass this so I can able read the rest if that ok with you ?


Merci,Marc

[Joseph M. Whitt]

Originally Posted by Marc Benz

I will like to help ya with this.,, However ,.. Unforteally I only can get into first page but for the rest there is not much I can do due I am not a member of this orgazation.

Nick., If you can find a way to tempory bypass this so I can able read the rest if that ok with you ?


Merci,Marc

The earth, by virtue of the moisture contained within the soil, serves as a very effective conductor. Therefore, in power transmission, instead of having both the hot and neutral wires carried by the transmission poles, one lead of the generator is connected to the ground, which serves as a conductor. All electrical utility wires are carried by the transmission towers and are considered hot or charged. At the house, or point where the electricity is to be used, the circuit is completed by another connection to the ground.

The electric power utility provides a ground somewhere in its local distribution system; therefore, there is a ground wire in addition to the hot wires within the service drop. In FIGURE 11.1, this ground can be seen at the power pole that contains the step-down transformer.

In addition to the ground connection provided by the electric utility, every building is required to have an independent ground, called a system ground. The system ground is a connection to ground from one of the current-carrying conductors of the electrical system. System grounding, applied to limit overvoltages in the event of a fault, provides personnel safety, provides a positive means of detecting and isolating ground faults, and improves service reliability. Therefore, the system ground’s main purpose is to protect the electrical system itself –it offers limited protection to the user.

The system ground serves the same purpose as the power company’s ground. However, it has a lower resistance because it is closer to the building. The equipment ground protects people from potential harm during the