Are home inspectors overstepping their expertise?

[jclark1]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

I should REVISE that statement....NACHI inspectors know enough to be safe.....it's the others we worry about..thehehe...sorry I could not resist

I don't agree Paul. There are a lot of inspectors on this board who sound like they need to learn a lot. And not just in the electrical field. That is why I have suggested that NACHI could elevate itself and its members by developing a mentoring program.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol..well I was actually trying interjecting HUMOR....lol.......since it is a NACHI board.....but I can see my humor is lost...lol..or rye at best

Actually i mentoring program sounds great.....not sure how to enforce it since some areas are weak in NACHI members.....and sad to say some inspectors in some areas do not care to help anyone they feel is going to potentially DIP into their pockets....sad but a true fact.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Paul, does anyone know how many HI's are injured by electricity? Or how many injuries occur taking of the panel cover?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Brian,

I am not sure....but I would venture to say it is not many if any a year because of education. Now, the rate is probably ( only guessing ) is higher in electricians because they get careless over time.....Not that they are not trying to be safe...just get into a groove and the safety procedures start to slack a little.

Personally....I think HI's are fine with removing panel covers...as long as they follow the proper protcol they should be fine.....as long as they don't go probing around...lol

The thing we really need is having some carpenters, plumbers, HVAC guys and so on to start visiting and answering questions and the level of knowledge will rise even more...

[Pierre Belarge]

The guys who are getting injured are not going to post this information. There is always a group of people within an industry who do things they should not do. [all industries]
I will say that when the first HI gets seriously injured or killed, then your industry will feel the pinch. What you want to do is be proactive and prevent such an incident by following the proper procedure(s).

It will also benefit your industry, as you will show professionalism.

[Doug Edwards, CMI]

I just talked to a friend of mine in the HVAC field and he had a beef with a HI who made a claim in a report that he had taken a temp reading (the old return air vs the supply air and got a 15 deg. split) and called it out as "needing a charge". This was on a two year old Heat pump. (1) you can't tell from what he did if it needs a charge or not, could be it had too much charge but the point is; he was troubleshooting and doing diagnostic work using a formula NOT recognized by any HVAC guy I know.
The HI is not a NACHI guy but a member of the other august group. First off how he determined all of this from that piss ant test is beyond me but I digress.
I suggested to him to start coming into the board and having a little training. He is a superb tech and he is a Board certified teacher for the State of Florida. He teaches HVAC and I hope he takes me up on it. There is so much misinformation about HVAC (and other stuff) that is being taught in some of the HI schools and books.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by Pierre Belarge

The guys who are getting injured are not going to post this information. There is always a group of people within an industry who do things they should not do. [all industries]
I will say that when the first HI gets seriously injured or killed, then your industry will feel the pinch. What you want to do is be proactive and prevent such an incident by following the proper procedure(s).

It will also benefit your industry, as you will show professionalism.

Pierre, from a quality perspective why would we need to be proactive to a problem that may not exist?
Now I am not saying that you should not be safe working around electricty, I just have not heard of many HI's getting electrocuted taking the panel cover off.

[Pierre Belarge]

Electrocution (death) is not the only injury that may occur. I would bet all of your money , that there are injuries that go unreported. Being proactive not only helps to prevent them, or at least keep them at a minimum, but it also makes your members of the industry more professional.
Not only that, but removing a panel cover from a live panel is a violation. It is a violation no matter how you look at it. The OSHA requirement, requires that when examining electrical equipment the power is REQUIRED to be deenergized. The only reason for not deenergizing, is if it will create more of a hazard. I can tell you that for dwelling units, there is no hazard that would be considered more of a hazard than the work itself.
Every time anyone....anyone removes a panel cover without deenergizing the power is in violation. The owners of the company will pooh-pooh this, that is until the moment they receive the fine/possible lawsuit.
If you were to have people following you around on your inspection (homeowner, buyer, realtor) there is a FLASH ZONE around the equipment that they are not allow to be in...are you aware of that. Imagine that lawsuit

Just some info. Of course we can hide our heads in the sand, but what is sticking up?

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by Pierre Belarge

Electrocution (death) is not the only injury that may occur. I would bet all of your money , that there are injuries that go unreported. Being proactive not only helps to prevent them, or at least keep them at a minimum, but it also makes your members of the industry more professional.
Not only that, but removing a panel cover from a live panel is a violation. It is a violation no matter how you look at it. The OSHA requirement, requires that when examining electrical equipment the power is REQUIRED to be deenergized. The only reason for not deenergizing, is if it will create more of a hazard. I can tell you that for dwelling units, there is no hazard that would be considered more of a hazard than the work itself.
Every time anyone....anyone removes a panel cover without deenergizing the power is in violation. The owners of the company will pooh-pooh this, that is until the moment they receive the fine/possible lawsuit.
If you were to have people following you around on your inspection (homeowner, buyer, realtor) there is a FLASH ZONE around the equipment that they are not allow to be in...are you aware of that. Imagine that lawsuit

Just some info. Of course we can hide our heads in the sand, but what is sticking up?

I guess if I had employees OSHA may have some relevance, I don't.
Just asking for some metrics Pierre so I can decide where my safety training dollars/time would be the best utilized.
So far driving to work and ladder safety seem more important.

But thanks for the INFO.

[Pierre Belarge]

"So far driving to work and ladder safety seem more important."

I have heard this type of response before, from the uninformed and uncaring individuals.

A little story that I will keep brief.

An associate who is an electrical contractor contacted me about a job he was intending to do. I read him the riot act as I did here and he chose not to follow my advice. Long story short his luck ran out (he has been around and in business 23 years) and now he is facing losing everything he has due to a choice made to try and save some time and money. It is also destroying his life, he wants to jump from a bridge...

My simple, but difficult task is to help eliminate this potential downfall. Safety is easy once it becomes a habit.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Pierre,

I would LOVE to hear more details about this EC.....without getting too personal because of his/her privacy...But as an electrical contractor myself I would love to hear it..if you ever can get a moment to E-Mail me or PM me.

Interesting insite........I think we preach safety very much here and you are right......it is MUCH better to be proactive than reactive when it comes to safety and learning safe procedures....My guys actually sit in with me on a monthly basis to discuss safety issues and so on.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by Pierre Belarge

"So far driving to work and ladder safety seem more important."

I have heard this type of response before, from the uninformed and uncaring individuals.

A little story that I will keep brief.

An associate who is an electrical contractor contacted me about a job he was intending to do. I read him the riot act as I did here and he chose not to follow my advice. Long story short his luck ran out (he has been around and in business 23 years) and now he is facing losing everything he has due to a choice made to try and save some time and money. It is also destroying his life, he wants to jump from a bridge...

My simple, but difficult task is to help eliminate this potential downfall. Safety is easy once it becomes a habit.

Was it a bank job?

No one said not to be safe, I am just curious as to how often people are injured taking of the panel cover on residential units?

Luckily you came along Pierre with your hard hitting fact based Anecdotal Stories to shed light on the subject.

As your associate that knows you would not take your advice why should I.

[jclark1]

That story definitley screams electrical safety.

[Pierre Belarge]

The associate who did not heed mine and industry advice, even when he reached out for it, is now in a world of hurt. He would love to turn back the hand of time, but cannot. He is going to lose everything he worked for in his career, plus.

Not everyone who works will get hurt or have someone get hurt. There are always percentages. With that said, I hope no one is in the wrong percentage, at least no one I know. It seems the longer I am in this industry, the more people I know are getting stung. His case is extreme, others I know have been fined... but the results are not just money, the anguish and suffering during the ordeal is usually long lasting, even sometimes driving people out of the business.

Choose to do it whatever way you will, but if a person chooses not to be as professional as is possible (part of proper training), he has no right to talk about others who are not professional in whatever way.

[jtedesco1]

Originally Posted by clawrenson

Thought this may be of interest regarding recent concerns about home inspectors and safety. Most particularly when removing electrical service panel covers.
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost....98&postcount=1

What's the current status of this situation.