Hot spot in panel

[Ralph A. Schade]

This panel has aluminum and copper wiring. No obvious deficiencies noted in the panel. Aside from the fridge and a few lights, nothing was drawing in the house. The breakers in question were listed as "lights and outlets". Comments?

[Michael Larson]

29.1 deg. C is a nice day.

Did you measure the current through that breaker?

[Ralph A. Schade]

No, I normally don't go as far as testing current. Typically, I don't get breakers heating up to 29.1C but it's the 41.7C that really concerns me.

[Michael Larson]

Ralph,

There is just not enough info to advise you. Sorry.

Could be a loose connection
Could be a loaded circuit.
could be perfectly normal.

[Frank P. Newman]

In my experience, it is likely an abnormal condition that should be investigated. It appears that the connection to the bus may be loose causing a high(er) temp connection. It is not very common to see that much difference in temps n a panel, even if the circuit is loaded. You can't be wrong by calling it out - otherwise why bother with measuring the temps in the first p,ace?

[John E. Mullarkey]

You are right to be concerned about the temp spread, that is alot for F nevermind C. The conductors' temp all appear normal and the heat appears to be highly centralized at the point where the breaker tabs connect to the bus bar. My guess would be that the tabs are bent, defromed, seperated, broken..I think you get my drift here.
Good luck

[Ralph A. Schade]

Thanks to all that responded. I recommended that a qualified electrician should correct the concern, to my clients. Then I told the agent to advise the vendors to have an electrician look at it asap. I called the vendors 2 days later to ask if the listing or buying agent had mentioned anything. Nada!
There was a host of issues noted, which I would not disclose. My clients had walked on the deal. However, I did feel that it was my moral obligation to notify them about the electrical issue. You'd think the agent would feel the same way, even if it was for a possible future deal with the vendors in their new home.

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by rschade

No, I normally don't go as far as testing current. Typically, I don't get breakers heating up to 29.1C but it's the 41.7C that really concerns me.

41.7° C is only 107° F. Is that really cause for alarm?

[Larry J. Michael]

Originally Posted by rschade

Thanks to all that responded. I recommended that a qualified electrician should correct the concern, to my clients. Then I told the agent to advise the vendors to have an electrician look at it asap. I called the vendors 2 days later to ask if the listing or buying agent had mentioned anything. Nada!
There was a host of issues noted, which I would not disclose. My clients had walked on the deal. However, I did feel that it was my moral obligation to notify them about the electrical issue. You'd think the agent would feel the same way, even if it was for a possible future deal with the vendors in their new home.

Sounds like the right thing to do,

[Chuck Evans]

Looks like it's about 22C above ambient (put a spot on the background for ambient). Worthy of mention, evaluation, not to get excited over.

[Ralph A. Schade]

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

41.7° C is only 107° F. Is that really cause for alarm?

Dunno, are you suggesting it's normal and may not get worse?

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by rschade

Dunno, are you suggesting it's normal and may not get worse?

I'm not sure. I was just asking for my own knowledge. I've touched dimmer switches that were hot during normal operation so I was wondering if a CB at this temperature was actually a potential problem or not.

[ldapkus]

I recommend you obtain some standards as guidance when performing infrared inspections. Guessing don't cut it. You need guidelines.

[Frank P. Newman]

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

41.7° C is only 107° F. Is that really cause for alarm?

Not necessarily "alarm", but when that is the only breaker with elevated temp and the others in the panel are more like 65-70 F, it is abnormal. Something like dimmers have an "excuse" for being warm - standard breakers usually do not (exceptions are some GFCI and AFCI breakers).

[Ralph A. Schade]

Originally Posted by ldapkus

I recommend you obtain some standards as guidance when performing infrared inspections. Guessing don't cut it. You need guidelines.

Thanks Linus, I'm sure that the booklet may come in handy and would be an interesting read. However, I really don't do quantitative scans at this time and having scanned thousands of panels, this is definately an anomaly which should be addressed. No guessing about it. I think that a hot spot such as this, while there is no apparent draw, is an issue. Never mind putting a demand on the circuit! What stumped me is the fact that the wires and the breakers appeared to be secure. I plan on following up with the vendor and will let you all know what it was.
I want to thank everyone for their input and opinions because I think it helps us all along.