Hot Tub Circuit Breaker

[Harry McBride]

Okay this is a GFCI 60 amp hot tub circuit breaker. Why in the world is the ground and neutral wires screwed directly into the circuit breaker? The neutral goes from the breaker to the ground bar. The ground goes to the hot tub. Circuit breaker looks almost designed to be wired this way but I have never seen anything like this.

[Robert Meier]

The problem here could be that they ran a 2 wire UF cable and needed a 3-wire supply (not sure if any tubs require a 3-wire supply) to the tub so they used the bare EGC as a neutral. The GFCI CB requires a connection to the neutral bar to function so that's why you see the white conductor jumped over. If the tub only required a straight 240 volt connection then the bare ground conductor needs to be landed on the ground bus. Since there is no main I would assume that this is a sub-panel which means that the EGC's and the neutral conductors must be separated. The UF cable is only permitted on the interior portion of the dwelling. It cannot go directly to the tub.

680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article, except as permitted in 680.42(A) and (B), that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.
(A) Flexible Connections. Listed packaged spa or hot tub equipment assemblies or self-contained spas or hot tubs utilizing a factory-installed or assembled control panel or panelboard shall be permitted to use flexible connections as covered in 680.42(A)(1) and (A)(2).
(1) Flexible Conduit. Liquidtight flexible metal conduit or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted in lengths of not more than 1.8 m (6 ft).
(2) Cord-and-Plug Connections. Cord-and-plug connections with a cord not longer than 4.6 m (15 ft) shall be permitted where protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
(B) Bonding. Bonding by metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base shall be permitted. The metal bands or hoops used to secure wooden staves shall not be required to be bonded as required in 680.26.
(C) Interior Wiring to Outdoor Installations. In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or enclosed within the outer sheath of the wiring method and not smaller than 12 AWG shall be permitted to be used for the connection to motor, heating, and control loads that are part of a self-contained spa or hot tub or a packaged spa or hot tub equipment assembly. Wiring to an underwater luminaire shall comply with 680.23 or 680.33.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

They didn't get it right.

It should be a four-wire circuit from the spa (HHNG). The breaker should have 2 hot connections to the spa, with one neutral connection to the spa and one neutral connection to the isolated neutral terminal (bus bar). The grounding conductor from the spa should be attached to the bonded grounding terminal at the panel.

[Harry McBride]

Thanks Jeff! So the ground conductor should not go back to the circuit breaker and the neutral should not go from the breaker to the neutral bus bar is that correct?

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by hmcbride

Thanks Jeff! So the ground conductor should not go back to the circuit breaker and the neutral should not go from the breaker to the neutral bus bar is that correct?

The GFCI circuit breaker needs a connection to the neutral bar to function. The circuit neutral (if there is one) would land on the GFCI breaker. In a straight 240 volt configuration, without a branch circuit neutral, you would still need to connect the circuit breaker to the neutral bar.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Two neutrals should be attached to the breaker. One terminates in the panel at an isolated neutral terminal (which has not been provided at this sub panel), and the other goes to the spa circuit.

The grounding conductor from the spa should not be attached to the breaker. It should be attached to the grounding terminal in the panel.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Sorry Robert - I see you've covered some of this but there is some lag time while your posts are being "moderated."

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by jpope

Sorry Robert - I see you've covered some of this but there is some lag time while your posts are being "moderated."

No problem Jeff. Actually Chris just cleared me so now my posts will enter in real time. It's kind of funny to read through a thread when your post has been sitting around waiting for hours and suddenly appears and at times makes no sense because it seems out of sequence.

[Bruce M. Graham]

Harry,
You up for Sonny's on Friday?

[Harry McBride]

Bruce,

If I don't get an inspection for then, sounds good. Meet halfway at 39th Avenue Sonny's.

[Harry McBride]

Thanks Jeff and Robert! Got it now. Conductors at bottom are to service sub-panel in home. This is a main panel adjacent to the meter.

[Jeffrey R. Pope]

Originally Posted by hmcbride

Conductors at bottom are to service sub-panel in home. This is a main panel adjacent to the meter.

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

There is "service" equipment, and there is "other" equipment. The panel you have pictured is very unlikely to be "service" equipment, in which case, it's "other" equipment (aka sub panel).

The conductors connected to the main lugs are feeders to that panel. In other words, that panel is being "fed" from another. The panel "adjacent to the meter" is your "service" equipment.

[Robert Meier]

Originally Posted by hmcbride

Thanks Jeff and Robert! Got it now. Conductors at bottom are to service sub-panel in home. This is a main panel adjacent to the meter.

Do you have any other photo's maybe showing the entire installation?