Hot Water Heater Wiring

[jtedesco1]

Article 336 - 1993 Edition of the NEC:

B. Installation

336-10. Exposed Work — General.

In exposed work,
except as provided in Sections 300-11(a), 336-12, and 336-13,
the cable shall be installed as specified in (a) and (b) below.

(a) To Follow Surface.

The cable shall closely follow the
surface of the building finish or of running boards.

I am prepared to discuss earlier editions of the NEC. This is from the earliest on disk that I have.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol....Again I am in AW of you Mr. Tedesco......I will simply let you have the floor....

Still using NM on MONDAY...I am 100% sure Mr. Lilly will not mind

[Mike Parks]

From the 1978 NEC purchased from Joe T.

This is the first place that I found that it must be protected. 336.6

And it was in effect before that but I do not know when it was first adopted.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol...I am not arguing the protection...lol...thats what I find as funny....I just happen to have an OPINION that it is not really subject to any physical damage if DONE correctly....regardless of the picture...lol

Anyway....I am 100% sure the CURRENT president of the IAEA will not turn down NM to a Water Heater on Monday....lol....never has....guess I fall in to the OLD electrician habit here.....NM works fine for me....Not CODE..just done it that way for years.....had talks about it to AHJ's WELL before it came up here and they simply did not care...lol....

My point is......if the HI ( which I am as well ) plan on calling that out...other than the OTHER issues with that image...I am speaking JUST on the NM to the WaterHeater issue.......they better be able to BACK it up with the local AHJ before they call an Electrician out.....that local AHJ might not think it is subject to any physical damage because you would have to DAMAGE the water heater technically to GET to the wire in the first place.....UNLESS it was stuffed in a closet...where something could be laid on it and damage the cable......I have seen this and MADE my guys protect it....

Just dont like the Blanket Statement it has to be in Conduit.......I know MANY local AHJ's who allow SE from the meter cab down into the panel....unprotected........GRAY area......If a HI called out JUST the fact NM was used on EVERY house....the LIST would be sooooo loooong

NM under the sink to the disposal...YEP....protect it....it gets things JAMED on it DAILY......a waterheater stuck in a room or basement....wires coming over to it directly from the wall...taped to the cold water pipe..and terminated into the WH correctly......I don't concern myself over that..sorry

I will turn in my NEC Badge......

[Mike Parks]

Paul

Again you are correct. It is the AHJ's call.

We just think he is wrong, not you. Well you might be.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

lol....BEEN BEFORE....lol......

Actually Mike...this is a case of I just DONT think it is subject to any damage in the way it CAN be done is all.

This is why I have worked in 3 states....VA, WV and MD and have not ever had a issue with it...but again...not a matter of being wrong or right....I just dont have a problem "Sleeping" at night knowing NM was run to the water heater......lol...

IN fact.......because of the way WE do it...you would destroy the actual WH before you would get to the wire.....

lol....I can handle being wrong fella.....lol...BUT I am still wiring up that WH on monday in NM........

[Mike Parks]

Paul PS

I like the disposal. But that circuit is not all the time.

Now let me agree with you more. So what about the cord to the disposal? If it was a cord ?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

happen to think the CORD which is allowed is JUST as much subject to damage..yet the NEC allows it......in regards to the disposal...

Funny thing the NEC sometimes......protects here.....then LAX their...

[Mike Parks]

Paul

You got me thinking. I may or may not change my mind.

Let me think about it a few days.

We have both seen applications that scare us more than the wh.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

OH no doubt Mike.........You are 100% correct...I can think of 100's of things in a house that concern me MORE than a NM to a Water Heater to write in a report for a HI.

My original concern was...if you WRITE that up in any other state other than one that does not allow NM in the first place......the poor HI is going to get a razzed in the field from the electrician who come's out and fix something like that....

Just did not feel it was report worthy in regards to the conduit issue....the fact it is TOO tight, looks like it is pulled at a right angle at the connector and being BLACK NM...probably has no EGC would concern me way more.

[jtedesco1]

The cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.If this cannot be accomplished then the NM is not allowed!I

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Well I am not going to argue with you JOE....But I suggest you understand what the AUTHORITY section of the NEC says.....Mr. Lilly allows it and it is done EVERTDAY.....in nearly EVERY house done it is going to hard to comply with that article on every case......the AHJ makes the call.

You can stand buy what ever you like...I will continue to do it as the AHJ's allow and run my good ole NM-B.....

They have spoken and they dont have a problem with it.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

How do you know I dont drop down running boards for the NM to the water heater and run it on them......will you then move off the running board issue and then back onto the Protection Issue...

The point is NM to a water heater....not knowing the situation BEYOND the image posted....as we have gone beyond that it seems.....again I have a water heater in a rough in on Monday....guess what.....using NM.....Bad Paul....BBAAADDDD PAUL........I again turn in my NEC Badge...

(C) Special Permission. The authority having jurisdiction
for enforcing this Code may grant exception for the installation
of conductors and equipment that are not under the
exclusive control of the electric utilities and are used to
connect the electric utility supply system to the serviceentrance
conductors of the premises served, provided such
installations are outside a building or terminate immediately
inside a building wall.

90.4 Enforcement.

This Code is intended to be suitable
for mandatory application by governmental bodies that exercise
legal jurisdiction over electrical installations, including
signaling and communications systems, and for use by
insurance inspectors. The authority having jurisdiction for
enforcement of the Code has the responsibility for making
interpretations of the rules, for deciding on the approval of
equipment and materials, and for granting the special permission
contemplated in a number of the rules.
By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction
may waive speci.c requirements in this Code or permit
alternative methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives
can be achieved by establishing and maintaining
effective safety.
This Code may require new products, constructions, or
materials that may not yet be available at the time the Code

is adopted. In such event, the authority having jurisdiction
may permit the use of the products, constructions, or materials
that comply with the most recent previous edition of
this

Code adopted by the jurisdiction.

[jtedesco1]

Paul:

"...will you then move off the running board issue and then back onto the Protection Issue..."

YES!

PS: I was an AHJ for the Cities of New Haven Connecticut, Branford Connecticut, Glendale, California, and Pasadena, California, and still wear that hat today when inspecting properties around the USA.

I never allowed a "whip" to the water heater, and most installers terminated the branch circuit into a disconnect, or J-Box and extended greenfield, or cable to the splice compartment.

Please send me a picture of the finished work and the name of the water heater, or post it yourself here so we can all see and agree that the installation is OK.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Paul:



I never allowed a "whip" to the water heater, and most installers terminated the branch circuit into a disconnect, or J-Box and extended greenfield, or cable to the splice compartment.

I perfer to see this method and so do our present local AHJs but not earlier AHJs.

Originally Posted by jtedesco1

Please send me a picture of the finished work and the name of the water heater, or post it yourself here so we can all see and agree that the installation is OK.

I think what Paul is saying is that what "we" think isn't as important as what his AHJ thinks and allows.