Inspector and electrician opinions on these situations

[David C. Macy]

Want to ask inspectors on how they report on the following and electrician how the address these issues.

1) Home has GFCI's that are not grounded.

2) Presence of knob & tube wiring. Home has an updated panel with mostly 20 amp breakers.

3) Ungrounded system. 2 prong receptacles throughout. Home has a window air conditioner.

4) Home has no AFCI. Home is older then 2002.

5) Sump is on a grounded duplex receptacle shared with other circuits.

6) Home has old style light fixtures above sinks with receptacles.

7) Home has a round meter base with 100amp SEC to 100 amp breaker.

Older system with no GEC.

9) Home has a grounded system using a green insulated ground connected to homes water supply system.

10) Air conditioner manufacturer's spec state max fuse/circuit breaker 30amps. 40 amps fuses at exterior shut off/30 amp circuit in panel.

Would like opinions from inspectors and also electrician that are called to home to review above items.

Just curious as some of these items have difference of opinions.

Thanks for the time

[gbeaumont]

Hi Dave

Here's my random stab at reality

1) Home has GFCI's that are not grounded.

They'll still offer some protection and therefore better than nothing.

2) Presence of knob & tube wiring. Home has an updated panel with mostly 20 amp breakers.

The K&T realy needs to go

3) Ungrounded system. 2 prong receptacles throughout. Home has a window air conditioner.

Many modern electronics require a grounded receptacle, system badly out of date.

4) Home has no AFCI. Home is older then 2002.

No big thing by itself, and no doubt we''ll eventually be recommending AFCI's as we do for GFCI's, should be installed when the wiring is replaced.

5) Sump is on a grounded duplex receptacle shared with other circuits.

Prefer to see it on either a dedicated circuit or at least GFCI protected

6) Home has old style light fixtures above sinks with receptacles.

Was Ok back in the day now requires upgrade and GFCI protection

7) Home has a round meter base with 100amp SEC to 100 amp breaker.

PoCo may have allowed that

Older system with no GEC.

See above

9) Home has a grounded system using a green insulated ground connected to homes water supply system.

Not a problem as long as supply is metal, but along with a general upgrade I would hope to see a second driven rod installed

10) Air conditioner manufacturer's spec state max fuse/circuit breaker 30amps. 40 amps fuses at exterior shut off/30 amp circuit in panel.

The 30 amp in the panel will blow as needed so the 40 disco is redundent



All of the above realy points to a home with 70 year old wiring that is in dire need of an up-grade.

Regards

Gerry

[Marc D. Shunk]

Here's your comments, from a sparky:


1) Home has GFCI's that are not grounded. Probably legal if they were just updating an old 2-wire system. Good idea, in fact.

2) Presence of knob & tube wiring. Home has an updated panel with mostly 20 amp breakers. Legal, if that's #12 K&T, otherwise a hazard.

3) Ungrounded system. 2 prong receptacles throughout. Home has a window air conditioner. Legal wiring, improper connection of window shaker

4) Home has no AFCI. Home is older then 2002. Legal

5) Sump is on a grounded duplex receptacle shared with other circuits. Legal, but ill advised

6) Home has old style light fixtures above sinks with receptacles. Likely legal at the time, but a present known hazard.

7) Home has a round meter base with 100amp SEC to 100 amp breaker. Probably okay unless you have more information than that.

Older system with no GEC. At risk for excessive lightning damages.

9) Home has a grounded system using a green insulated ground connected to homes water supply system. Not enough information to comment yet.

10) Air conditioner manufacturer's spec state max fuse/circuit breaker 30amps. 40 amps fuses at exterior shut off/30 amp circuit in panel. That's essentially a 30 amp circuit then. The smallest breaker will trip, which is the 30.

[David C. Macy]

Thank you

I value your opinions

[gbeaumont]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

Here's your comments, from a sparky:

I wonder how the comments would differ if you were bidding the job Marc

No Offence intended

Regards

Gerry

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by gbeaumont

I wonder how the comments would differ if you were bidding the job Marc

No Offence intended

I know exactly what you mean, and you're headed down the right path. If I wanted to sell work, I'd switch gears entirely.

[Greg Fretwell]

" Older system with no GEC. At risk for excessive lightning damages."


Is he really saying the system is not grounded or just that there is no supplimental rod in addition to the water pipe

[rmaday]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

I know exactly what you mean, and you're headed down the right path. If I wanted to sell work, I'd switch gears entirely.

Does that mean there's a difference between "legal" and safe?

[Jae Williams]

As a home inspector I'm not concerned with "legal"...I consider the safety factor only.

While most of the described conditions are "legal" they may well be far from safe.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by rmaday

Does that mean there's a difference between "legal" and safe?

Of course there's a difference. Was there ever any doubt? What was once quite legal, but no longer is legal, can now be recognized as unsafe. What is presently legal is presently also safe.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

" Older system with no GEC. At risk for excessive lightning damages."


Is he really saying the system is not grounded or just that there is no supplimental rod in addition to the water pipe

Pot stirrer.... No GEC means that there is no grounding electrode conductor whatsoever. No need to cloud the issue with whether there's a water bond or not. "No GEC" is clear all by itelf. If there ain't one, there ain't one.

[Greg Fretwell]

Did he look in the meter base, or even up on the service head?
I can't imagine a PoCo installing a service without a ground electrode. That is the reason some areas around here FPL wants it to land in the meter base.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

I can't imagine a PoCo installing a service without a ground electrode.

Who said the PoCo even installed it? You're not even an electrician, have little to no field experience, you're not a home inspector either, so you're about 98% unqualified to even comment.

[Greg Fretwell]

Fl License BN2102, IAEI 2A,2B,2C certified SBCCI commercial and Residential inspector certified. 8 years as state electrical inspector ... I got some game.

Perhaps I mis spoke when I said the PoCo installed the "service" but they certainly suppied he drop and FPL won't do that until they look over the installation. Are you saying your PoCo will just hang the wires on the house and never look to see that there was anything there to hook it too?


BTW why the hostility?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by Greg Fretwell

Are you saying your PoCo will just hang the wires on the house and never look to see that there was anything there to hook it too?

You betcha. Particularly considering the age of the installation. See it on a regular basis myself. Matter of fact, recently a PoCo energized a service I built, but the meter's load side cable was just hanging in mid-air inside the garage; not even a panel mounted yet. The fact that you can't imagine such a thing happening shows you're lacking in depth of experience.