Interior GFCI Poll

[ROBERT W. NEWLAND, JR.]

Originally Posted by jfunderburk

Then what does it "serve"? Almost everything you could conceive of plugging into that outlet has to rest on the countertop!

Vacuum cleaner, light for the hutch the new owner is going to place right there, Vanilla plug-in, etc.

[relliott]

One can't assume it is for anything other than something on the counter.

Do you guys that do not call it out ever call out island counters in the kitchen.

Rethink your position.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Good point Bob. Rarely could any appliance on the island reach the sink. If you look at it strictly from a potential hazard standpoint, the bar wall is more serious.

[ROBERT W. NEWLAND, JR.]

Originally Posted by relliott

One can't assume it is for anything other than something on the counter.

Do you guys that do not call it out ever call out island counters in the kitchen.

Rethink your position.

Of course. I was just going by what I saw in the picture. The rest of my comment was that Joe was there. If he felt it was unsafe, regardless of code, write it up. Had I actually been there, I may have written it up too.

[jkogel]

Originally Posted by relliott

One can't assume it is for anything other than something on the counter.

One can assume it is for the vacuum. For the counter, it would be up higher.

Originally Posted by relliott

Do you guys that do not call it out ever call out island counters in the kitchen.

Rethink your position.

I'm rethinking that one, but it's a different question.

John Kogel
www.allsafehome.ca

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Robert, those bar walls are all pretty much the same. You don't have to be there to grasp this issue.

Here's how I write it up for anyone who may be interested:

"One or more outlets on the bar wall within six feet of the kitchen sink was not provided with ground-fault protection. We recommend upgrading the outlets to have ground fault protection. GFCI receptacles are life saving devices and have been required within 6 feet of the sink since 1987 and at all outlets serving kitchen counters since 1996."

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by jpope

Ditto. . .

Tritto

Appliances no longer have cords long enough to reach the pictured outlet.

[Bruce A. King]

The "six feet" wording is not in the 2006 code so I would change that verbiage.


I write it up as a safety upgrade.

The reason it is wired to the GFCI circuit on new homes is to save wire, not to meet any code.


Also, its not about just the sink, the kitchen is considered a potentially wet area.

Some houses have a butlers pantry with a countertop that is 15 feet from the kitchen sink and most code inspectors are requiring these to be GFCI also.

[Christopher Currins]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Tritto

Appliances no longer have cords long enough to reach the pictured outlet.

So have all the older ones been thrown away?

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Originally Posted by bkelly2

Appliances no longer have cords long enough to reach the pictured outlet.

OK, my obtuse friends, forget the pictured outlet. Picture in your mind an outlet on the bar wall within 6 feet of the sink! That's what this is about.

[relliott]

Where is that bearded guy when you need him.
(Paul)

This was a good post, Joe.

[Brian E. Kelly]

Originally Posted by ccurrins

So have all the older ones been thrown away?

Well ya, after they got all wet.

[Joe Funderburk, CMI]

Brian, that was funny!

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Point is......in the picture shown has a receptacle that is more than 12" below the counter surface ANYWAY so it can't serve any counter top so if this is a kitchen it would not need GFCI....REGARDLESS of what you think a person might plug into it.

If you have a Wet Bar application then within 6' of the wetbar sink would apply but in the picture i see it is not a Wet Bar......so NOPE...GFCI not required.

The point is the NEC ( which is concerned about safety just as much as anyone ) is very specific on where GFCI is applied and where it is not.

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel.
FPN: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel on feeders.

(A) Dwelling Units.

All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and

20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through ( shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use [ROP 2–50]
[ROP 2–40, 2–41, 2–51]
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted
to be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
[ROP-2–41, 2–40, 2–56, 2–57]
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements
of 210.52(G). [ROP 2–40]
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink
[8]Boathouses

[relliott]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

Point is......in the picture shown has a receptacle that is more than 12" below the counter surface ANYWAY so it can't serve any counter top so if this is a kitchen it would not need GFCI....REGARDLESS of what you think a person might plug into it.

If you have a Wet Bar application then within 6' of the wetbar sink would apply but in the picture i see it is not a Wet Bar......so NOPE...GFCI not required.

The point is the NEC ( which is concerned about safety just as much as anyone ) is very specific on where GFCI is applied and where it is not.

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel.
FPN: See 215.9 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
for personnel on feeders.

(A) Dwelling Units.

All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and

20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through ( shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(1) Bathrooms
(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor
located at or below grade level not intended as habitable
rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas,
and areas of similar use [ROP 2–50]
[ROP 2–40, 2–41, 2–51]
(3) Outdoors
Exception to (3): Receptacles that are not readily accessible
and are supplied by a dedicated branch circuit for
electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted
to be installed in accordance with 426.28.
(4) Crawl spaces — at or below grade level
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like
[ROP-2–41, 2–40, 2–56, 2–57]
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently
installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall
not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection.
Receptacles installed under the exception to
210.8(A)(5) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements
of 210.52(G). [ROP 2–40]
(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink
[8]Boathouses

Paul I see nothing there about 12" below the surface,also wondering about the smiley cover up?