Jacuzzi Bond wire was cut. Why ?

[Craig Cooper]

I inspected the access under a hydromassage/Jacuzzi tub and found that the originally installed bond wire to the pump was cut near the clamp. The bond clamp and cut end of the wire were still attached to the pump.



Any ideas why? Thanks for the help.

BTW- This is my first post with photos. How did I do ?

Craig Cooper
Norwest Inspection Services, Inc.

[Bruce M. Graham, III]

Was oem or a new pumped? Some guys ripe and tare and get their money and leave, they are like ghost they can move out the door so fast.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Howdy,
The interesting thing about bonding to the pump is that in many cases this takes place with the plug and cord that powers the pump itself. However, usually in the manual it will state the bonding requirement and if the LUG is present.....then in most cases it will demand it be bonded accordingly.

In this case the pump does have a LUG and since the bonding conductor was run chances are it was required to be installed by the manufacturer of the pump or hot tub and should be bonded.

[Michael R. Boyett]

Originally Posted by pabernathy

The interesting thing about bonding to the pump is that in many cases this takes place with the plug and cord that powers the pump itself. However, usually in the manual it will state the bonding requirement and if the LUG is present.....then in most cases it will demand it be bonded accordingly.

We've had this discussion before on the board. The last time we did I came to the conclusion that the boding wire was for the benefit of any metallic piping at the tub and not for the pump motor itself. It's already bonded as you stated. In the case shown here I would think the bonding wire is not needed since the visible plumbing is PVC. Is that incorrect?

[Greg Fretwell]

Don't get the equipment grounding confused with the equipotential bonding. They are two separate systems. You need both.
The green insulated 12ga or larger equipment ground is 680.21(A)(1)
The 8ga solid equipotential bond wire is 680.26(B)(4) That can't be a stranded 680.26(C)

[Greg Fretwell]

Mike, the only way you don't need a 680.26(B)(4) 8 ga bonding wire to a pump is if it is listed/labelled as a "double insulated pool pump".
The lack of a lug may be a clue but if it isn't clearly labelled as double insulated it isn't.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Sorry greg....thats what I was refering to in regards to the intent of the manufacturer and their requirements. We see ALOT of them with double insulated and I even have seen MANY that say in the manual to NOT connect a seperate bonding conductor to it.....

However 680.43(E)(3) more so in regards to the bonding. Yet many newer models have a plastic outer case and will not provide a bonding point...I dont suggest the electrician FABRICATE one.....IMO

We are talking about a indoor spa arn't we.....just checking

What I find very interesting is the FPN under 680.26(A).....

FPN: This section does not require that the 8 AWG or
larger solid copper bonding conductor be extended or attached
to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any
electrode.

Basically and correct me if I am wrong greg....the last few we have installed have been on set in hot tubs that have all plastic piping and so on and did not require any bonding beyond the Double Insulated cord to the GFCI protected receptacle.

[Michael R. Boyett]

OK, that sure clears that up. My point is that, as HI's, we are encouraged to write up every jucuzzi pump motor we see that has an empty bonding lug and yet, I'm still confused as to whether that is the correct thing to do or not.

So, Greg, if I understand that correctly then if I see an empty motor lug but the motor is clearly labeled Double Insulated then I do not need to write it up unless there is metallic piping? Or does, metallic piping have nothing to do with it?

The 8ga solid equipotential bond wire is 680.26(B)(4) That can't be a stranded 680.26(C)

Is that what the lug is for?

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Micheal,

The LUG is as greg stated generally to give an even potential to the metal parts around the SPA for a lack of a better description. If the spa is all plastic and their is clearly listed a double insulated plug and motor and no lug it is not needed to be bonded.

However the question comes up....WHAT if they replace the motor.....but again if the motor is metal it should be bonded through the plug.....the spa would still have no metal parts.......

The bonding in question is not to bring it BACK to the enclosure itself...but to equipotential all metal parts around it....just not sure how many are actually metal anymore.......the metal rings and so on lets say on jets do not require this.

Now.....what if copper plumbing piping to the SPA.......the i would want the bond to take place...

Edit- I called Metal ..Methal....lol

[Michael R. Boyett]

Paul, that's exactly my point, thanks. I think HI's should be cautious and not immediately write up an empty motor lug without further investigation. Now, some may say that the further investigation should be the duty of the electrician that was called for. I don't know, I'm conflicted on this one and don't want to needlessly refer out this potential non-issue.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

(E) Methods of Bonding

All metal parts associated with the spa or hot tub shall be bonded by any of the following methods:

(1) The interconnection of threaded metal piping and fittings
(2) Metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base
(3) The provisions of a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.

Micheal I think it is WISE for the HI to learn what they are looking at when they are making sure it is GFCI protected to also go that extra mile and look for this information. I don't think it is too awful complicated.

I know that in the ones we wire we hardly every bring a # 8 AWG to the pumps...probably should but we dont because it seems all the units we are dealing with that are a cord and plug these days ( assuming that mind you ) are double insulated motors and also to the GFCI receptacle .

Many also that have a metal case and lug may already have the pre-installed bonding jumper to the piping system prior to shipment but I can't bank on that but it would meet the requirement because the bond is not to provide a fault path...but to supply an equipotential field and reduce voltage gradiants.

[Paul W. Abernathy]

Also....figured you probably already have this but figured I would post it again.

http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf

[Pierre Belarge]

Craig
For your first post with pictures, you did good!!! Keep them coming.

[Greg Fretwell]

NEC 2005 680.26(C) is going to make this a lot more serious if the AHJs agree it is requiring that the paved surface within 3 feet of a spa is bonded. That would mean if you drop your Sams Wholesale Club packaged spa on a concrete patio you will be chipping up the concrete and adding a 12x12 metal bonding grid, (rebar or copper mesh) same for tile or pavers.
Florida IAEI has the longest thread in IAEI history going on this. It is 10 pages in a BB that normally only gets about 30-40 messages a month.

Other things that have to be part of the "8 guage solid" bonding grid include things like screen cages, window frames, ladders, grab bars or anything else metal within 5' of the water up to 12' high.

[Greg Fretwell]

You really have to determine whether this is a hydrotherapy tub or a spa. The rules are different, although I really can't see why.