Junction box

[Kenneth E. Sitzes]

The house I inspected to had a sub panel under the kitchen sink. When I open it was junction box. Is there a height requirement on junction boxes?

jse_DSC02133.jpg

[Marc D. Shunk]

No height requirement on junction boxes. They are only required to be accessible. The definition of accessible in the code does not include words like "easy" or "fun". There are a couple of apparent violations in that picture, such as the 2" connector is not okayed for 12 romexes, the cable do not appear to be fastened within 12" of the box, and the box does not appear to be bonded with the largest equipment grounding conductor that enters the box. The equipment grounding conductors only appear to be twisted, with no mechanical splicing means.

[Larry D. Kage]

Originally Posted by ksitzes

Is there a height requirement on junction boxes?

Just so it's accessible.

[Greg Fretwell]

You could point out the missing KO seals and the sloppy way the Romex is coming in the box. (not stapled within 12", the big "cludge" in one connector etc).

[wsiegel]

That is pretty common with the old fuse boxes. Most of the time the electricains just removed the bars, spliced the wires and closed up the old box.

[William J. Decker]

Old service equipment (from the picture) under a kitchen sink, now used as a junction box.

My first question. Why the heck did they put a panel under the kitchen sink?


"Oh, I just had an old panel around and didn't feel like running down to Home Depot and paying $3 for new junction box, so I used the old one.

Under a kitchen sink is a "wet location". If anyone disagrees, I would suggest that you spend some time down there.

I guess that it is just a matter of how much danger the client wants to accept.

"Gee, Mom. I just went to put something under the sink, but I got shocked."

Question? Did the panel have a dead front or was it just open?

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Under a kitchen sink is a "wet location". If anyone disagrees, I would suggest that you spend some time down there.

That's screwball talk. Under the kitchen sink is not a wet location. If it's wet under there, it's a leaky location. Have the leak repaired.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

That's screwball talk. Under the kitchen sink is not a wet location. If it's wet under there, it's a leaky location. Have the leak repaired.

With all due respect, how many kitchen faucets have you changed out?

How many P traps have you changed? How many grease clogs have you rodded? How many dishwasher drains have you replaced? How many backsplashes have you caulked?

You just do electric. How many panels (which is what this is, even though it is only being used as a "junction box") have you found under a kitchen sink?

Under the kitchen sink is a wet location.

Trust me.

[Greg Fretwell]

By your definition any receptacle near a window is a wet location.

[jvogan]

I agree with William. Doesn't seem to be the safest location for an electrical junction box. Sometimes, sooner or later, most sinks will leak. I wouldn't want my child messing around under there, and I would certainly call it out for any client paying me to inspect their home, regardless of what code says. Marc, what is the difference between a "wet" location and a "leaky" location. Under "redundant" in the dictionary is says "see redundant"!

[Greg Fretwell]

It may be a poor choice but that is a design problem, not a "wet location" problem.

[Marc D. Shunk]

It's a dumb location for a junction box, but certainly not a prohibited location.

[William J. Decker]

Originally Posted by Marc D. Shunk

It's a dumb location for a junction box, but certainly not a prohibited location.

Again, we have to note a big difference. Home Inspectors are not Code inspectors.

Electricians only have to follow code.

Home Inspectors have a much greater liability. We have to inspect to standards of common sense. If somecan get hurt, they probably will get hurt, and then they will sue us.

Electricians can just point to "code" and they get off the hook.

Different job, different standards, different liability.

[jvogan]

I would simply call it out as a safety concern, and recommend moving the box, regardless of what "code" had to say. Too many bad things can happen (ie. children getting into the box, water, etc.). That covers me and the homeowner is made aware of the concern. Then the monkey is on their back to fix it or not.

[Marc D. Shunk]

Originally Posted by wdecker

Different job, different standards, different liability.

Yeah, it would be nice for you guys if you had an SOP that had the rule of law. It makes me wonder why anyone would want to be a home inspector? Is there any money in it? I don't think I've ever seen any palacial homes occupied by home inspectors. I guess it's a calling?